Normal 3.5 yr old being a kid or SEN

[Tuftytoo]

So nursery suggested a SEN observation as my ds hasn't made any friends and prefers to play alone or with the adults. He was observed by lead on SEN and no further referrals needed.

Anyway since then I find myself micro analysing his behaviour and I hate it.

Today in a shopping centre he ran off laughing into all the shops and wouldn't stop when I called his name. He also chased pigeons on the street and didn't stop. He does listen on occasion but today was a bad day.

We were out for dinner yesterday and at the table he was on an iPad (I know) and he kept saying to the adults shh stop talking I'm trying to watch something.

He also hates wearing trousers since potty training. He will wear them just prefers shorts I think because he had a few accidents. Fine to wear them before. But now I'm like is it sensory?

Usually I would of just thought 'ah kids being kids' or that he is a bit spirited but now I question it all even though at this stage SEN says they have no concerns.

Anyone a) had a SEN observation that didn't go any further b) have experienced any of these behaviours with their 3 year olds. Need a bit of camaraderie I think. Thanks

To me from it sounds like typical 3 year old behaviour although preferring shorts sounds sensory related. That being said if nursery are saying he needs an observation that can’t hurt going through with one as perhaps they’ve noticed things that you’ve not picked up on. I know it can be worrying but I always say the sooner you know, the faster you can get on waiting lists and the faster he gets supported. Ultimately it all becomes more apparent that SEN is at play when they start school.

@SpaceRaiders yeah he's had the assesment and they said no further referrals needed. I guess time will tell if something comes up at school like you say..

Can kids have sensory issues and not have SEN? I feel like I've heard of lots of toddlers having issues with socks or fleecy clothing etc

I've got a 3 year old. They sound very similar except the clothes thing.

Mine was playing alone or with adults in nursery but the nursery have worked on encouraging her to play with the other kids and she is now starting to. I do play and talk with her alot, and whilst we have socialised she does not have any regular play with other kids (except nursery) so I just put it down to being around adults so much.

She always used to run off. So stressful! Less often lately but it usually occurs when she is tired or overstimulated. She is very articulate and assertive/bossy but I just put it down to her being 'spirited' and also an only child in a family of adults. I have sort of let her be 'free' when out and about. I wouldn't have done this if I had more than one so I believe it's a mix of her personality and my parenting style.

I do have small niggling thoughts about something not being quite right but nothing has justified seeking any professional input yet, I have an eye on it. She screams alot, is quite wilful, very particular about what she wants but my overriding thoughts are it's just her personality and the fact she is 3.

@Elzibells thanks so much for your reply.

I have a baby too so the running off thing is stressful as I've on occasion had to abandon pram to chase after him. I think he probably would stop at a road but obviously not willing to take that chance just yet.

Like I say the shorts thing is only since potty training a few months ago. He had no problem before and will wear them doesn't refuse just would rather shorts as easier to pull off. That was my initial belief anyway.

I thought normal behaviour too for a 3 year old but the suggestion of SEN even though it has come to nothing has got me got me questioning my instincts

Hmm, it's hard to tell.

A lot of it sounds very much normal behaviour, but I am also a SEN mum so can see a lot of this behaviour in my son.

Telling you all to sh could be that he can't filter out the noise he needs to hear because his brain lacks the filter.

Shorts could be a body temperature regulation issue, or a fabric issue.

The not stopping when called could be an auditory processing issue and inability to recognise name.

But I think it's also important to recognise that EVERY ONE has sensory needs.

Autism is a sensory, social and communication, and emotional regulation disability and if you break it down it does tick sensory, social and communication, but I think it would be hard for professionals to evidence at this stage against the differences of a NT 3 year old.

I would keep a diary of who what when where and why, and date, and monitor for a few months then ask a health visitor to come and discuss it with you.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead interesting. He definitely knows his name and responds to it all the time just seems he has selective hearing when he's out having fun and doesn't want to stop. But worth knowing all this thank you

Does he show any signs of repetitive movements or self stimulating behaviour like humming, repeating sounds or phrases, tip toe walking, shaking his head in the light, spinning, flapping, tapping his fingers, grunts or roars, biting clothing, chewing hard things especially in times of anxiety or excitement?

Sorry I missed that bit. If there aren’t any other concerns I’d continue monitoring it for the time being and perhaps raise it with your Gp or health visitor if you’re worried.

In my experience sensory issues typically come hand in hand with other SEN conditions. For us dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADHD and Autism runs in the family. I have one who is hyper sensitive and the other who is under sensitive, both of which present their own issues. In hindsight Dd2 stripping to her nappy as a toddler and refusing to wear shoes or socks was a sign of what’s to come. Now I’m not saying for a moment that’s what’s happening for your dc, but just something to be aware of.

The auditory processing thing doesn't mean he doesn't know who he is btw. When someone NT walks down the street they hear cars they hear people but if someone shouts you your brain goes ping! And you recognise it and you turn round but for someone with autism all those sounds just jumble together and you don't get the sense of urgency, and sometimes can't make our what people are saying so it doesn't occur to you that the person shouting in the background is actually shouting at you, with your name. It just sounds like background humdrum, it also makes it harder to identify sources of danger like lorries and fast flowing traffic because you lose track of where you are in comparison to them.

Supermarkets and streets are full of all different sounds so it can make it hard to process what you're hearing, who is saying what, what they're saying, how close or far they are, and intonation.

Why are you allowing him to run off? If he can’t be trusted to stay by you he either goes in the pram/buggyboard or he has to wear reins.

It isn’t negotiable.

🙄

None of this. The only slight thing would be repeating himself when asking if he can have something over and over until I listen or he gets it. Again just thought this was being a demanding 3 year old

At 3 the nursery SENCo told me she thought my eldest was showing signs of autism. Extremely rule bound. He didn’t have many friends. We adopted a watch and wait because the reality is under 5 it is actually quite hard to get a diagnosis for autism unless a child has obvious presentation. He still likes to follow the rules, but has friends and no concerns.

My next child at 3 was slow on developmental milestones, but no concerns really from nursery. Goes to school and more issues develop and he’s been diagnosed with various neurodevelopmental disorders. Covid slowed down getting assessments.

At this stage, unless it is causing them problems or they are missing key milestones I would say adopt watchful waiting, but have a low threshold for pushing for assessment (on basis lists are long, even in private sector) and you can always leave in if a years time a concern has actually resolved,

Restraint is a form of abuse.

Safety should be a priority, but independence should be encouraged.

All 3 year olds bolt for it occasionally because they're children with no impulse control.

He is nearly 4 and starts school next year. His baby sibling is in the pram and we got rid of the double buggy. He doesn't always run off just on occasion if he sees a pigeon like I say. Reigns on a nearly 4 year old wouldn't be appropriate imo

Sometimes kids gravitate to play with the adults as they'll do more of the heavy lifting interaction-wise and they're struggling with language development, so it's good that nursery are on the ball with the possibility. Worth getting on the waiting list for a hearing test anyway - just to eliminate that as a possibility and confirm it's definitely selective hearing and doing something he's not meant to be doing because it's a much better offer than listening to Mum.

One thing that might/might not work with the doing a runner when you've got the pushchair thing (it worked with my eldest who was a fiery bugger as a toddler... she still is now to be fair) is making some kind of hand loop and attaching it to the pushchair - I taught the eldest to hold onto that when we were walking along and it kind of bridged the gap between when they're a bit too old for reins but still lacking in impulse control and any form of reason when they've got an idea in their head. I did a little crochet loop but ribbon or anything would work as well.

I've known a good few little ones, including one in my broader family, with a good selection of the behaviours you describe, both at the toddler and preschool age, some of which lasted quite a long time. While a couple of these children did turn out to have a mild-moderate level of neurodiversity that did need (only) minor intervention as they got older, I still think it's better to let this all play out for a while, unless the issues really are stacking up into something very worrying.

A lot of adults are very specific with their clothing habits, I quite often see people wearing shorts or hats and coats when the weather would seem to dictate the opposite (although I do now live in a huge city where the range of what is considered 'normal' or 'socially acceptable' is broader). Likewise other non-clothing habits. Don't pathologise small children for having personalities and idiosyncracies. Children can be very 'weird' during normal development.

Expecting excessive conformity and labelling everyone else prematurely as "possbly neurodiverse" isn't no more helpful than denying neurodiversity and expecting conformity and not making adjustments - there is a sensible middle group. If there are some concerns stacking up over time, I would watchfully wait, deal with any actual problem behaviour, keep an open mind. But just that IMO.

@CoffeeWithCheese they say he is advanced and his language is amazing. But then this has been used as an angel for SEN too I think. It's hard as just want to take all his attributes as the fab little boy he is rather then an additional need. I thought maybe because he was ahead of his peers at nursery he played with them less and preferred the adults.

Thanks for the tip re the pram. I ask him to hold the handle but he prefers my hand. A funky colourful loop may help

@ThePeachIsSoUnusual you're my kinda person! I couldn't agree more and needed to hear this. I feel just a bit fed up that I'm viewing him through this lense now even though I feel quite strongly he's just a kid doing kid stuff. I should stop really as the assesment didn't flag anything .. I know it comes from a care perspective from the nursery but these things can be a bit over egged now I get why but still how I feel

One other thing to note with Autism traits is that it does look very different for each individual. I mean you have the classic stimming traits which are undeniably associated with autism but then you’ll have others which to an ordinary person wouldn’t really seem out of place. DD2 for example, her stims are bitting her finger nails, picking her scabs, she also likes swinging on chairs, they also noticed she pulls her jumpers over her hands a lot. All of these things are similar to what any other child would do. But I suppose it’s the frequency and intensity that she does that’s the issue.

@SpaceRaiders good to know. No stims here. I read that NT people can stim for self regulation too

I’ve just spent the week browsing online and googling left right and centre. My ds 3 years and 3 months just started preschool for the first time in April so when he was 3yrs and 2 months. Since turning 3 seemed to have a personality shift where he wasn’t a happy toddler anymore, he was hitting, getting jealous of baby brother, etc and was just showing interest in looking at other children esp 4 yr old hyper boys at play hubs and wanting to hang out with them. His preschool just observed him for 4.5/5 weeks and gave me a feedback saying he repeats what they say to him, doesn’t really interact and even though he smiles at and plays happily alongside the other children he doesn’t interact or play with them yet. They also said he colours and likes colouring - when at home he cannot stand colouring finds it boring and I can never get him to do it. They wanted to do a senco referral but I broke down and told them to give him time to settle down before labelling him, I felt like because he hasn’t completely conformed (plus he’s quite tall for his age so they probably think he’s near to 4) that there’s something wrong and now I see myself hyper analysing everything. I’ve noticed he is suddenly trying to bite his nails - his dad does this too all the time so it could be mirroring him. They said he tip toes sometimes but not a lot. Now when I google this stuff it’s all very (nt and nd) he does repeat phrases but that’s because when he asks me something like ‘want weetabix’ I’ll reply with ‘you want weetabix? Ok’ and so he might have picked that up because I was trying to encourage full sentences. But instead of saying ‘yes’ he would say ‘want weetabix’ again. It could be a slight language delay and also both myself and husband are quiet and our circle is small we are also considered to be ‘shy’ so he might just be that or I don’t know. What is early intervention even? We had him privately assessed by slt at 30 months or so because he started regression when we had our second baby. And the slt who works with a specialist autism team said we had nothing to worry about. But now I’m catastrophisising again.
so following on from what the nursery said to you end of last year have there been anymore changes?

I think the buggy / reins thing are pushed too much on here. They are really intended for very young toddlers who can’t follow instructions not for preschool children.