Educate Yourself it May Save Your Life

[Onthepage]

Please read the following link, this is the governments very questionable and dangerous solution to lack of medically qualified staff. These people are NOT medically qualified, please make sure you know who is treating you or your loved ones it could just save your or your loved ones life!
it is your right to know who is treating you and to make that choice.
This is the governments attempt to pull the wool over your eyes by spinning PA’s and AA’s as something they most definitely are not. They even get paid nearly twice as much as a qualified junior doctor who is responsible for them. Do you think that is reasonable, if you agree with me it’s YANBU!
https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-calls-for-immediate-pause-on-recruitment-of-physician-associates

I've seen two recently and both times it was useless. I now need to take my elderly uncle to his GP and I can only get to see a PA
His needs are complex and I feel really fed up.

Have you ever seen one? I mean nobody is really positioning them as a doctor and PAs themselves are not trying to convince you they are a qualified doctor (well, some unscrupulous people on SM might).
First of all, you always know who treats you because every consultations starts with "Hello, my name is XYZ, I am one of the physician associates in X service".
Secondly, you will come across many situations where patients are treated by non-medical staff. I am a clinician working in a service that is run entirely by AHPs. We don't perform surgeries but we can certainly take patient history and deliver specialist therapies. Some AHPs also have prescribing powers. I will tell you that a doctor is pretty useless at delivering rehabilitation of mobility (that's PT's job), or cognitive rehabilitation following a stroke (that's OT's job), or swallowing training (which SALTs do). A doctor can diagnose, prescribe and perform invasive procedures (like surgery, for example) but this doesn't mean they are specialists in everything. In fact, you will find that in many MDTs, we work collaboratively to deliver your care.
Yes, band 7 posts pay more than junior doctors because junior doctors are still in training, whereas to become a band 7, you graduate and work your way up from band 5 onwards gaining specialist skills along the way. So at a graduate level, band 5s are paid roughly the same amount as junior drs. I would prefer for the PAs to enter the profession at a band 5 level as well. I am not convinced they are being supervised by junior doctors. At least, in my experience, they are being supervised by a consultant.

You are

You are wrong on so many levels Catza. Junior doctors are medically qualified, physicians associates are not, neither are anaesthetic associates. Your are correct that in some areas in healthcare you don’t need to be medically trained, junior doctors are, although they have to bear the misnomer of ‘junior’ I can assure you they are responsible for PA’s and yes, earn almost half the money PA’s do. But at least the government can say “we have employed so many hundreds of people into the NHS this year” it’s a spin! Most people don’t even know what a physicians associate even means! Sounds impressive though! You are muddying the waters I’m am talking about the direct correlation between doctors and physicians associates.

I feel your frustration sparkling sparkle it is so wrong.

Also forgot to mention Catza, first hand experience, some PAs do try to pass themselves off as doctors!

First of all, you always know who treats you because every consultations starts with "Hello, my name is XYZ, I am one of the physician associates in X service".

Bullshit it does. I had a terrible Appointment while pregnant. I knew what was wrong with me and what I needed (subsequently confirmed and treated by A&E), but at the GPs I was fobbed off with ‘pregnancy is an anxious time, why don’t you Google fucking mindfulness’.

I was so angry (once I had recovered) that I looked up my notes before making a complaint. And that’s the first time I knew I’d been seen by a physicians associate.

And now I have private insurance!

@Catza we have a really good PA at my surgery but those sorts of posts are so annoying.

First of all, you always know who treats you because every consultations starts with "Hello, my name is XYZ, I am one of the physician associates in X service".

HOW can you know how every PA begins their consultation?

Will this not be happening with private insurance then?

I am so sorry to hear that you had to go through that Incey. I am just trying to raise awareness that we the public are being duped! Just want people to have the knowledge because it all seems to have been put into place under the radar!

Thanks for raising it @Onthepage , I feel strongly about this too!

I don't think YABU @Onthepage . After a disastrous appointment when what turned out to be whooping cough was misdiagnosed by a practice nurse I refuse to see anyone but a qualified doctor unless I'm there for blood to be taken or about ear wax.

Not heard of this - thank you.

I can imagine that even if a physician associate introduced themselves, most people wouldn't know what that meant, so it's worth spreading the word.

"Hello, my name is XYZ, I am one of the physician associates in X service".
Nope. The one I saw introduced himself as a "physician". That would probably fool most patients into thinking he was a doctor. I knew what he was though I didn't comment as was feeling very unwell.

Long thread on the subject here.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/general_health/4940978-physician-associates-missing-diagnoses?reply=130754811

I work in secondary care and work alongside PA's as part of an MDT. I would agree with you that often they are supervised by consultants. They in no way trying to dupe anyone into believing the are doctors. You keep referring to the fact they 'aren't medically trained' - what exactly do you mean by this? Yes we now they haven't done a degree in medicine, rather they have done a vocational medical degree which has a large overlap. They don't prescribe medications as part of the degree and therefore cannot make any medication changes or prescribe new medications. They carry out the jobs that the ward doctors would do to assist and lighten the junior doctors workload.

I'm the same vein there are some incredibly senior nurses/physiotherapists and paramedics who are considered advanced clinical practitioners who can carry out medical assessments and prescribe once they have completed necessary training. They don't have degrees in medicine, do you also feel like these people are duping the public too?

Summermeadowflowers, well said. I’m not saying that all PAs are terrible, but their role is limited and the public generally don’t know what they are or what they actually do! It is also another reason why junior doctors have been striking. Why do these PAs get almost double the pay junior doctors do? Doctors 5 years at uni, PAs 2. Doctors medically qualified, PAs not. Doctors can do surgeries and prescribe, guess what PAs can’t do either unless repeat prescription! Doctors responsible for PAs!

@onthepage I’ve been seen by a number of PAs in my surgery and have never had a problem with the service I get from them. In fact they’ve always emphasised their role definition to me very clearly and have never felt lied to or that someone was masquerading.

I have to admit to feeling a huge amount of sympathy for many in the PA role with all the bad press recently as I feel they have entered the service of the NHS with genuine reasons and now they are getting vilified and undermined in the press.

Make no mistake I believe Junior doctors deserve pay equality - and maybe people will finally wake up and stop voting Tory - but I feel there needs to be some protection in the current climate for staff in the PA role as it is becoming unpleasant.

Do you work in the NHS? How do you feel about the attacks on PAs?

When our local university starting training PAs, they came to us to ask us to help train physician assistants. Then suddenly, they started calling them physician associates. Presumably because it's more confusing to the public.

They are not actually "medically unqualified "
My niece is a PA and she spent 5 years at university

Because I worked in the nhs long enough with enough colleagues in various roles to know that people introduce themselves and their profession when they first meet a patient. I have to say that the only time I am not seeing people introducing themselves is in GP surgeries but since PAs work in other settings too, I am not prepared to generalise this behaviour to thousands of other professionals across the NHS

Physician assistant is also very close to magician assistant and conjures (see what I did there) an image of someone in a sparkly outfit gesturing at a box they're about to step into.

Changedfortheday, Yes I have worked in the NHS for many years as have many family members. It has been dumbed down and dumbed down. I don’t presume to tell people how they should vote, or who they should vote for, that is a private and personal decision. I just want to raise awareness of what is happening in the NHS. People need to be aware of who is treating them and whether they are properly qualified to do so.

the definition of medically qualified is having completed a degree (followed by an internship in medicine) and being continually assessed for competence and being under the jurisdiction of the relevant professional regulatory bodies.

let's not conflate matters for the sake of the argument.

No, PAs do 3 years of clinical science, then two year masters in PA = 5 years in total.

Therealcookiemonster, Totally agree thank you 😊