Is this normal pain for a kidney infection or is it sepsis?

[askttd]

Hi all

over the past few days (since Monday) I’ve had pain in my kidney area (sides and back) and have been drinking less, had bad chills from about 4pm where my body is shivering loads for about 3 hours despite wearing a tracksuit, dressing gown, blanket and a duvet with the heating on.
went to urgent care yesterday on the advice of the GP and their they said I had a UTI and kidney infection and gave me antibiotics.

However, what worried me was that when they checked my temp it was 38.9 (no paracetamol taken) and my HR was 138 (think I was nervous which I hope added to that, but my resting heart rate is usually relatively high, around 80). At urgent care they didn’t do any blood tests to rule out urosepsis and now I’m worried I might have that.
My shivers have gotten better last night (only happened for around an hour) but I can’t sleep on my sides or stomach because of the pain. It’s very painful lying on my back and sitting up, I tried to work from home today but the pain is too unbearable.

I know most here aren’t qualified to give medical advice. I have contacted my GP just waiting for a callback. But I just wanted to get the opinions of those who had had kidney infections whether this was normal? Or from those who have had urosepsis and if it seems more like that?

thanks.

I'd be very clear that you believe that you may have sepsis.

And also bear in mind that ANYONE can come on to MN and say 'GP here' or 'nurse here' or 'sepsis professor here' and (a) not be telling the truth, or (b) nevertheless capable of posting unhelpfully.

Only further tests and examination will lead a to a diagnosis of sepsis or be able to rule it out. My experience such as it is lately with health care, and it is of unfortunate necessity extensive, is that you have to be your own advocate. Be polite and articulate as possible.

How have you been since you started the ABs?
What is your temperature now?

Hi, I got the ABs last night at midnight. The GP at urgent care said I should start to feel improvement in 48hrs. I think the kidney pain is getting worse each day but the chills seem to be slightly better so it’s hard to say if it’s getting better/worse/the same. My partner has just gone to get me some thermometers so I’m not sure as of yet.

I might be being overly cautious but my sibling recently contracted sepsis and almost lost a limb and almost died, and there were many missed signs from the doctors in A&E so I’m just very worried (although this is a different hospital but in the same area and it hasn’t been inspected in many years, but most in my area are ‘requires improvement’.

I've never even hear of urosepsis...are you medically trained or googling?

I would call your GP and ask if they think there is a chance you could have sepsis. I had to do this before, and everyone went from being very unhelpful to being very concerned, once I uttered the magic 'S' word. It turned out to not to be that and I did feel a bit silly, but I would rather be safe and feel silly than not be safe. Mine was a kidney stone (and infection) the pain was unbearable

Are you medically trained? I suspect not!

Hi @askttd
Even if it’s not sepsis, it could be an infection that is serious enough to require hospital treatment.
Please seek urgent medical advice and ask for a review. Better safe than sorry.

I had a near miss when I was younger, had to be hospitalised with a kidney infection, when 12 hours before I had been at work, so they can move fast.
Have you taken anything for you temp? What is it now?

If you’re in that much pain with a kidney infection then even if it hasn’t progressed to sepsis you might need iv antibiotics. If you think it might be sepsis then obviously that’s urgent and life threatening. I messed my health up for a long while staying at home with a kidney infection that ended up with hallucinations from the pain and fever because i was ‘on antibiotics’ and had been seen, so thought it would be making a fuss to go back. My friend nearly died from sepsis in similar situation. I wouldn’t risk it. The problem is that if you start feeling worse then you lose the ability to make decisions clearly anymore and it gets harder to move and take action.

I would go to A and E if you are in any doubt. I know from experience that kidney infections can get very nasty, very quickly and you can suddenly become so ill that you are unable to seek help. Whenever I get to the point where I am shivering or shaking with a kidney infection I would get immediate help and if antibiotics don’t help - by which I mean completely resolve the shivering within 6-12 hours I would seek further help.

I’m not medically trained btw, I’ve just had a lot of kidney infections. One particularly bad one when I was 16.

Hmmm.

I have (unfortunately) recent experience of missed sepsis after kidney infection so i might be biased. But have you taken any pain medication? Antibiotics alone will not prevent immediate pain until they begin to work and the infection subsides.

No obviously I'm not else I would hope I would know what the term meant, but that's irrelevant, was is relevant is whether the OP has medical training to give them knowledge and therefore concern about it.

@SuperBored yes urosepsis (not sure if I've spelt that right) is a thing. Sometimes you would just call it sepsis and sometimes you would call it a more specific name, depending on where the infection started. So urosepsis would start as a uti or kidney infection. My sepsis started as an infection in my womb which then got passed to ds so his was called neonatal sepsis. Not sure if mine had a special name, I was so out of it that I didn't think to ask. I didn't even realise how bad it was until I was better.

My mother is a nurse. When I told her I went to urgent care and what they did (urine test) she asked if they checked my blood for urosepsis.

If you were seen yesterday (I’m assuming in the afternoon/evening, as you say you only got ABs at midnight) by medical professionals, I guess the question is

has something got worse since then?

Usually they say come back if you get worse or if in X number of days you are not improving.

They also usually say how long it takes for the antibiotics to kick in. 12 hours (1 or 2 doses) is usually not long enough. How long did they say?

Finally, we’re you told to take pain meds? Are you taking them?

There are campaigns within healthcare to remind medical staff to rule out sepsis because it is so common, easy to miss and dangerous. If you’re not feeling better and especially if you live alone (or with a man who won’t notice if you’re at death’s door), then please err on the side of caution if you have chills and body shakes, lots of pain and sepsis was not discussed or ruled out. Anyone saying watch and wait clearly has no experience of how fast and terrifying sepsis is. My friend texting me from hospital about how many pints of blood they were pumping into her and how it was having no effect on her blood pressure is one of the scariest things I’ve experienced. Me and her mum had seen her grey and shivering but because she had seen a doctor and been prescribed something assumed it was all in hand. If she’d gone earlier treatment would have been quicker and easier. She didn’t die, but she was fucking close. One symptom of sepsis is feeling like you’re going to die/impending doom - if you do feel awful all through then definitely go to a hospital.

Both you and your mum are probably on high alert for sepsis right now because of family experience but I wouldn't let that stop you from asking the GP specifically about sepsis and for a recheck to rule it out. Even explain about your family member as well so they can hopefully put your mind at rest.

Agree as well that the infection can start to affect decision making so try to be aware of that if later on you feel like you can't be bothered going back if things get worse. That's the infection talking.

It's so easy to check CRP, that's the best benchmark. I didn't gave any pain apart from the fever, my legs hurt unbearably. My temperature was 41 when I was admitted, CRP was 1100

I'm not medically trained so I won't advise.

But I will say that 38.9 is a low grade fever. When I had sepsis is was almost 41 and I couldn't open my eyes to light and was hallucinating.

Are you taking painkillers which will also help with fever?

No it isn't. In ICU if a patient had a fever of 38°c we took blood cultures to establish the source. 38.9°c is very concerning for an adult.

Do you know if they sent away the Urine Sample for Culture and Sensitivity? The infection maybe resistant to the antibiotic you have been prescribed. Ask them to check that too.

@askttd do you have specific worries about sepsis or are you just unsure what the symptoms might be and don't want to miss it?

A few questions which might help:

1. Are you able to eat and drink normally?
2. Are you passing urine? If you are, is it a normal quantity, normal frequency, and normal colour?
3. Are you able to talk normally, or feeling breathless when you talk?
4. Are your hands and feet normal temperature, or are they cold or discoloured?
5. Are you mentally sound or do you feel disorientated or confused?
6. Is your heart rate still high when you are sitting down and relaxing?

Ultimately, if you are not seeing any benefit at all from the antibiotics you need to phone 111 and talk to someone. If you're feeling a little better but not great, they're probably starting to work.

I was going off the established categories:

• up to 39 low grad
• 39-40 moderate
• 40-41 high grade
• 41+ hyperpyrexia

Does the NHS not use these?

Sorry this was to @Lougle. Apparently mumsnet didn’t want my quote to work!