Train companies do themselves no favours- no tickets til 12 weeks before

[SecondUsername4me]

It's so frustrating!

I need to book trips much further out that the typical 12 week lead on train tickets - this is things like trips away for weekends, or our main family holiday which we will do in the UK next year.

I want to book the train as, y'know - environmentally more friendly than me driving 6 hours, or flying 1 hour. But I can't do it. And I don't want to book accomodation for set days and spend £££ making pre bookings at theatre and other book ahead venues, to then have the train tickets release 3 months before we go and are either 3x the price they were last summer or they don't run on the specific days I've booked accommodation for.

Why are they 12 weeks? And even then it's "likely 12 weeks" - I've got a small trip to book for the first week of January and it's still saying "tickets coming soon"

If I want to go to Paris, I can book the Eurostar a year out. But then I can't book any transport to get me to the start of that journey!

That would require them to have a consistent and reliable service where no services are reduced/cancelled.

Airlines can do it

It is because engineering works are only confirmed 12 weeks beforehand.

I have booked a German ticket in February already.

Airlines don't have the same issue of infrastructure management, where the infrastructure is run by a completely different entity than the transport.

We need to start again from scratch with our railways.

I preferred it pre-privatisation, when you just rocked up to the station and bought your ticket.

And you can still do that?

It's not the decision of the train companies. It's Network Rail (a nationalised company) that controls the entire UK railway network. Individual train companies couldn't sell tickets more than 12 weeks in advance if they wanted to.

Luckily you can still do that.

Because engineering work is finalised at 12 weeks notice. If they sold tickets further ahead than that then the ticket you've bought will be for a train that isn't actually running as advertised (yes, I know that there are many cancellations anyway). Some operators do sell further ahead, but this is usually simpler operations such as Caledonian Sleeper where they have options to divert trains and still arrive at the advertised time.

Trust me, it's worse in Europe. Germany and Austria don't finalise their engineering work until a month ahead, by which time you've already bought your tickets and made plans around them. I arrived 2 hours late at my destination in Germany last year after turning up at Cologne to find that the train on my reservation wasn't going to go anywhere near Cologne and would take a different route to Hannover, bypassing me. This year I boarded a sleeper train in Linz and was told that it would be diverted via Salzburg, adding two hours to the journey advertised when I bought my tickets. It got worse, going via Salzburg means crossing the border at Freilassing where the police are particularly keen on delaying trains while they check for illegal immigrants (free travel in Schengen hasn't been quite so free since 2015). So I arrived in Amsterdam 4hrs 28mins late, missing my Eurostar.

The Eurostar staff were very helpful, rebooking me onto the following train which would have given me only 15 minutes to get to Euston for the last direct train home. As it happened there was an ASLEF strike in England that day so I had planned ahead and booked a berth in the Scottish sleeper (the Scottish and Welsh governments haven't royally pissed off their staff like Whitehall has) which departed late that night.

I know. But the price didn't go banging up if you weren't able to commit yourself 3 months in advance.

Trains are insane. I wanted to take my son to London for the day (from the north). Works out I can fly to Belfast, Dublin or Paris, for a day trip for significantly less that I can get a train to London.

Watch out with that, check four weeks ahead to see if it's changed.

Airports, Air Traffic Control & Global Distribution Systems are run by completely separate companies from Airlines. Yet the industry somehow manages to sell tickets up to 12 months before departure.

In some ways, eg operational safety, Britain’s railways are outstandingly good. In many others, eg punctuality, reliability & ticketing, the industry is a dysfunctional shambles.

LNER does make some dates available much further in advance.
https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-later/early-bird-ticket-alerts/

Insane - £200 to take two adults 84 miles, must specify the exact time you go and come back. £2.38 per mile on a train, 40p per mile in the car. Can be flexible about the time you go and leave.

I've just googled flight options in frustration and its £70 return from our local airport to Heathrow. I know for a fact trains would be more than that, but added to the fact that I can't book them for another 5 months means it's just going to be an option for us - yes I know the train would get us into the centre, but we would be going to London for a full week, so I don't mind landing in Heathrow.

The sky doesn't need maintenance so planes can fly on any day. Airports often have quieter periods when they can get runway maintenance done, rail doesn't have that luxury as on many routes it's a 24hr operation. Safety standards are very high in the UK, so changing a rail can no longer be fitted in between trains, possessions take time to set up and hand back so it's more efficient if they block the line for longer periods to get more done in one go.

The timetables don't shift massively (by a few minutes but not huge difference) and the cheap tickets are usually on the same trains. Price it up 12 weeks from now on the standard price and on the cheaper option and then you'll know the price range.

If you are travelling with children it is probably worth getting a friend's and family Railcard (you don't need it to book, just by time you travel).

Now I don't believe that, have you selected 1st class by accident?

Airlines do cancel flights.

I've booked flights a year ahead and then they ring when the summer schedule actually comes out and say that the flight you are booked on doesn't exist anymore, which flight do you want to move your ticket to?

I was able to book more than 12 weeks ahead on the trainline app, but not on a website. Have just checked the app, and it would allow me to book for March.

Aircraft are vastly more advanced & complex than even the most modern trains, and as such they require frequent & intensive maintenance which has to be planned many months ahead. Published schedules have to work around this maintenance program.

The biggest difference between the two industries, in my experience, is one of mindset. The railways are undoubtedly working with a lot of Victorian infrastructure which should have been modernised decades ago, but the industry & many of its working practices are also stuck in the past. Aviation is constantly evolving & modernising because ferocious commercial competition forces operators to cut costs, streamline processes and improve efficiency every year just to stay in business.

Airlines which don’t do this go bust, eg Monarch, Flybe, Thomas Cook. Railway companies which fail are bailed out by the taxpayer & the operating license is handed over to a new holding company which re-brands, re-paints the trains, TUPEs the staff & gives them new uniforms then everyone just carries on doing their jobs as before. Nothing ever actually changes.

But the price didn't go banging up if you weren't able to commit yourself 3 months in advance.

You can book advance tickets any time in advance of your journey, as long as they're still available. Busy routes/popular times do get booked up. To travel to and from Scotland at Christmas/NY or in peak summer season you probably do need to book well in advance.

I feel your frustration. We have booked Eurostar tickets for Amsterdam in February but we cannot book our train down to London yet.

Aircraft are vastly more advanced & complex than even the most modern trains, and as such they require frequent & intensive maintenance which has to be planned many months ahead. Published schedules have to work around this maintenance program.

@Libertass what's that got to do with anything? We were talking about infrastructure. If your plane/train needs maintenance, you just allocate a different plane/train. Infrastructure is the sticking point, you've only got one line.

but the industry & many of its working practices are also stuck in the past
What evidence do you base this on? Don't tell me that you actually believed the Daily Mail hatchet jobs with made-up "Spanish practices".