How late is too late for extra-curriculars

[LilLucky]

DD is 12, in Y8, has a hobby she loves and is about to move up a level. Currently she starts at 6 and finishes at 7.30 twice a week, 6-8 another day then weekend.
In the next level it would be 8-10 3 days a week, and in a year it would be every night if she wants to take it really seriously (8-10 3 nights, 8-9.30 two nights, then weekends too). DD is adamant she wants to do it and wants a career from this hobby.
I'm worried 10pm finishes at 12 are too late, thats her bedtime currently!! She would still have to fit in seeing friends, piano lessons and homework too.
AIBU to think this is too much too late??

I would urge caution. Dance is a brutal world and the chances of a successful performing career of any length are tiny - especially if she wants to follow a classical path. If she wants a career in a classical company then she really needs to be in full time vocational school by 16 at the very latest, and even then, the numbers who "make it" are tiny. For things like contemporary, musical theatre and so on it's possible, and indeed sometimes preferred, to only start full time training at 18, but both the training and work life of any kind of dancer is extremely tough, with a lot of downsides and even for the very best a career can be destroyed in minutes by injury. Everyone needs a plan B (and ideally C, D and E as well!) I don't know if I'm allowed to mention other forums so sorry if it is breaking the rules but if you go to Doing Dance on Balletcoforum you will find lots of parents, dancers and ex dancers sharing their experiences warts and all and a lot of it isn't very nice.
Nobody wants to crush their child's dream, especially at such a young age, but you need to be realistic. I think just about every dancer and dance parent I know will stress the value of achieving a decent general education alongside dance training - at least a decent set of GCSEs to fall back on is very important. I can't imagine that the schedule you are describing could fail to have an impact on your DD's schooling and I would urge you to consider how sustainable this would be longer term. My DD spent a lot of hours in the studio during her GCSE and A level years and was doing homework at 6 oclock every morning to compensate for it, but she wasn't out until 10pm every night even when she was in her late teens. She did ok, but certainly didn't reach her full potential academically and if we had our time again I think we might do things a bit different, even though she is now a very happy dance teacher.

IME, dance schools push you hard to take unnecessary classes! They're telling you she "needs" to do this class and this other class, whereas in reality it would be fine to drop one. In your situation I'd let her do the 3 nights a week next year, then reassess the following year. Five nights a week plus weekends seems excessive, but like I say I'm sure it would be possible to reduce the number of classes rather than drop dance altogether.

That's way to much in all honesty and it is likely she will be impacted in her studies if she continues with such a bonkers schedule.

5 minutes walk? That's great.

It might work- homework, piano, friends, rest, meal, she would do everything after school, and this would be the last thing of the day.
It might be even less disturbing for your day than the current times.

I suppose she might be able to walk there alone, at least sometimes, so it would be just nipping out for 10 minutes by one of you.

Can she do homework before she attends?

I have children who’s hobbies run later then I would like. But their teachers say the skills they have learnt from the hobbies have helped them academically. The hobbies are varied. They are primary age. The homework has to be done but they see the hobbies as fun and social anyway. They don’t get to watch any TV in the week as too busy. Most days it doesn’t get put on during the week. They are okay with this and like socialising with friends they have made in the clubs.

My Dneice did something similar her DM actually said it improved her homework and academic achievement. She is at University not but dances competitively.It is a gift.

Is it one of those franchise dance schools? If so-do be wary. They have pound signs in their eyes!

I joined cadets at 12, year 8. It would have been over about that late. We also lived about a 15 min drive from the hall. I would have been really annoyed if my mam had stopped me! All I wanted to do was join the army, (I didn't in the end)

Honestly, your daughter is a cash cow for the dance school. If they had her best interests at heart then she would not need to do the volume of classes proposed. If she was good enough to have potential to be a professional ballet dancer then you would already be doing the big school associates classes. If she wants to be a dance teacher, there is no need for that intensity of training. This is her childhood. She will never get that time again.

FYI - we've been there and dance is brutal.

@pontipinemum "I joined cadets at 12, year 8. It would have been over about that late."

Presumably not every night?

I know kids who do competitive gymnastics who train Mon-Thurs x 2 hours and x 3 hours and on Saturday x 5 hours. No training on Sundays This is not a specialist school and the kids range from 9-14.

@CurlewKate no just two nights a week and a weekend once a month. Sorry my fault, I didn't read the OP correctly. I read it as DD does 2 nights per week and it will increase next year. It is a lot but I think she should do it. They can re-assess next year when the hours increase.

The performance aspect of dance will be really useful for lots of things in the future even if she doesn't end up as a dancer or dance teacher.

My DD did 22 hours a week as a national/international competitive gymnast, including 9.30pm finishes on weekdays and 8am starts on Saturdays. She thrived on it, has lots of friends she made from it, got to travel and compete in some big places, and overall had a ball. She also got a string of 8s and 9s in her GCSEs. If you can, give it a go. It will give her great skills in teamwork, motivation, perseverance, resilience, and managing her time effectively. My one stipulation for my DD was that if her grades started slipping she’d have to stop, but if anything it focused her mind. She may not like the commitment and drop out, but if you can give her the opportunity then do it.

I know kids who do competitive gymnastics who train Mon-Thurs x 2 hours and x 3 hours and on Saturday x 5 hours. No training on Sundays This is not a specialist school and the kids range from 9-14
Yes, lots of children put in very long hours for a variety of sports and activities but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is good for them to do so.
When you are in that type of environment can be extremely difficult to say no to things that are often presented as great opportunities or essential to your child's progress and "everyone else is doing it" can become a huge pressure. I know lots of parents of dancers and athletes and virtually everyone will tell you that getting off the rollercoaster is really, really hard once you are on it, even if you have grave misgivings.
I have been a lot more careful and a lot less trusting with my younger children's activities than I was with the eldest, and they are all quite talented. But I learned from experience!

Far too much and doesn’t seem at all fair on you and the rest of your family. how on earth do you have time to have hobbies or meet friends or just relax. That’s just as valid as a possible future career your daughter might have.

It would be a firm no from me. Though we do some early mornings, I wouldn’t have them waking home at 10 pm and I just think that’s far too late for a 12 year old ( bedtime here would be 9.30 latest)

it that serious ( and assumed talent) I’d be looking for a specialist school. What you describe would not be sustainable, they’d be too exhausted and it would lead to injury / school refusal / more drama

but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is good for them to do so.

Neither is it necessarily bad for them.

I’m a firm believer in giving children the most opportunities available.

OP It’s worth trying it.

8-10 is very late for dance classes. If she's That serious she should be looking at an associate's class that she auditions for. The odd 9pm finish would be fine, even 2/3 times a week. I'd be looking at a different dance school.

No way in hell.

Either audition to get her into a pro dance school where she dances during the day (although those places have awful mental health), or keep her on a schedule that allows time for homework and decent exam results.

She’s 12. Kids are not yet wise enough to choose their own future path. It’s for you to protect her from the result of her own bad decisions.

Let’s face it the chances of her becoming a professional ballet dancer are extremely low unless she’s off to the Royal Ballet school etc

That is ludicrous. My DD started a few extra curricular things when she was 12-13, and several of them started to have later and later finishes. DH worked 2 different shifts every second week - 'Nights' - 10pm to 6am, and 'days' - 8am to 5pm.

So he was on night shifts every other week - 10pm til 6pm. Her finish time was (should have been) 9pm!

After a month or so, the 9pm finish became 9.15pm, then 9.25pm, then 9.45pm, and some weeks 10pm. (And even later occasionally!) After a while I had to say some weeks 'we need to leave here no later than 9pm, as her dad needs the car for work at 9.30pm.'

A shirty and disgruntled drama club leader said 'we need her to stay til at least 10pm.' I told him it was not possible, and DD had to stop going altogether, as the leader said she was 'missing stuff.'

DD was disappointed, but Iuckily, a couple of weeks later, another lass in the group said her mum said she will bring my DD home every other week, if we do the same for hers on the week DH is on days - 8am til 5pm. But it was a bloody nuisance, and yep too late for 12-13 year olds!

Tell ya what, I don't miss the days of being a free taxi for the kids! Hanging around all evening, waiting to go pick them up from their hobby groups, or friends houses, or extra curricular activities!