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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what the country was like under a Labour government?

1000 replies

user6776 · 13/11/2023 20:14

I'm too young to remember a proper Labour government. I was 12 when the Tories got voted in back in 2010 so that's all I've ever really known.

How much better was it than it is now? Why did Labour lose the election back then anyway?

Interested to hear people's opinions.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
MasterBeth · 13/11/2023 22:31

TeenLifeMum · 13/11/2023 21:07

They spent more money than they had so yes, spending on nhs was great… but then we had a recession to recover from that spending.

My family’s personal experience was that dad got made redundant and signed on for the first time in his life only to find he was only entitled to £94 a fortnight for a family of 4 because dm worked too many hours (not based on her salary and the fact she worked as a TA in a school so only got paid for 44 weeks a year). This was in 1998/9. They also brought in tuition fees with very little warning so my brother’s year was the first year and they had less than a year to prepare. Yes there were student loans but for my parents who never had much but avoided debt other than their mortgage this was huge.

2007 house prices were spiralling upwards then they all went into negative equity.

I do believe that the economy is based on global factors and governments have limited ability to influence too much but get voted in or out depending on the economy. The media has far too much influence too largely telling us what benefits them and their owners rather than ever providing us with the full story.

I once read that Labour has great ideas but is terrible at seeing them truth and budgeting, conservative has less good ideas that largely benefit the rich and demonise the poor but they’re great at getting stuff done. We need the good bits from each. Controversially, I liked the coalition - Tory’s with conscience.

Jesus, have you had your eyes open for the last 13 years? Where have the Tories shown any competence in getting stuff done?

NHS? HS2? Economic growth? Environmental protection? House building? Better schools, roads or high streets?

We have had falling real incomes, a stagnant economy, sleaze and corruption, division and culture wars. And the one thing they claim to have got done - Brexit - will be an albatross around our necks for at least the next 25 years.

Kwasi · 13/11/2023 22:32

Youthinkyoureuniqueyourejustastatistic · 13/11/2023 20:24

Cheaper to go to uni.
16-19 in education got EMA (£10-£30) per week means tested.

Labour abolished student grants and introduced university fees.

Facebookflight · 13/11/2023 22:33

I have no particular political leaning usually, but loathe the current corrupt, gaslighting brand of Tories with a passion. John Major I could vote for. Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak no way.

life under Blair had its ups and downs but you felt Gordon Brown / Jack Straw / Jackie Smith / lots of others were grown up intelligent, serious, diligent people with integrity trying their best for the UK. Compare and contrast with Jeremy Hunt, Priti Patel, Suella Braverman, Gavin Williamson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries, Matt Hancock, Dominic Raab, Liz Truss, David Frost, David David. I could go on all night. Vile, vile cretins the log of them.

Tax credits put more money in the pocket of those with little, but that money is from public spending. Compare with somewhere like Germany where companies pay their staff the UK-wage-plus-tax-credit amount. Basic salaries are much higher overseas as companies now know they can get away with paying staff less in the UK as the government will make up the difference. Studies show tax credits have got us into a bit of a bind.

I used sure start centres as a ‘middle class mummy’ as I lived very remotely and there was nothing much else to do on maternity leave.

Dont expect big changes under Starmer though. The economic position the UK is in couldn’t be more different to 1997. Starmer has no money to invest in things at all. I’d just like to feel grown ups we’re back in charge again.

anotherside · 13/11/2023 22:35

MidnightOnceMore · 13/11/2023 20:53

It was better than this mess.

It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it wasn't completely broken. Bloody Tories just break everything.

I agree with this. Is there a single thing that has improved the last 13 years for the majority in this country under Tory rule ? I can’t think of a single thing. Cost of living way up. NHS struggling. Schools underfunded, overcrowded and many in a physical state of disrepair. Housing unaffordable for many with average age of first time buyers nearing 35. Quite a record.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/11/2023 22:36

But to answer your question about how we got here OP, it’s a mixture of:
th U.K. media having a right wing/pro Tory bias.
the voting population preferring charisma to competence (and an unfortunate incident with calling a voter a bigot)
everyone being fed up and wanting change
an election in which the voters couldn’t really decide what it was they did want so Nick clegg got to choose. Karma was a bit of a bitch to him though and served up what the Lib Dem’s deserved.

Ballsbaill · 13/11/2023 22:36

I agree with a PP. Why is there an obsession with benefits to top up wages and why aren't employers made to pay a decent wage in the first place?

All those years of labour government and they couldn't work with unions to promote better pay. Even the minium wage wasn't good enough it was propped up by multiple benefits

TeenLifeMum · 13/11/2023 22:41

@MasterBeth you misunderstand me. They get stuff done that benefits the top earners, not us normals who use trains. If that enthusiasm was used changing things for the masses they could actually do something good… but, no, they don’t do that.

anotherside · 13/11/2023 22:41

Apart from the corruption and incompetence p, another thing that stands out about the last 13 years of Tory rule is that they have literally zero vision for the country. What are they trying to achieve? What do they believe in? Absolutely nothing, beyond perhaps an economic landscape in which the top 10% get a an increasingly bigger slice of the pie. That’s literally it. But people keep voting for it.

RobynRB · 13/11/2023 22:41

Oh, and the last Labour govt didn't build lots of council houses or end the right to buy either.

fetchacloth · 13/11/2023 22:44

Livelovebehappy · 13/11/2023 20:57

Not great. I remember the Trade Unions were king when Labour were in power, and strikes were abundant. The Unions really had the Government over a barrel. I think people now tend to look at how it was under Labour with rose tinted spectacles, because it was so long ago. Remembering the good and not the bad. A bit like childbirth or leaving an unhappy marriage - your memory mellows over the years. Best to use your friend google OP, then you can see the good, the bad and the ugly, and make your own informed opinion. Using MN to get balanced info on Labour isn’t a good move…..

I remember it well. All this happened just before I left school at the end of the 1970s.
It really was so bad, I've never voted for a Labour government.

Clavinova · 13/11/2023 22:44

Public Sector debt

Other graphs are available;

PS: Net Debt (including public sector banks) as a % of GDP

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/ruto/pusf

shoeawsome · 13/11/2023 22:44

Iudncuewbccgrcb · 13/11/2023 20:41

There was a lot of hope in 1997 when Labour came to power.

Much like now everyone was just fed up to the back teeth of 18 years of tory sleeze and selfish attitude towards public services and the public and people just wanted a change.

When they played D:ream 'things can only get better' after winning the election by a landslide.... it was a moment.

And much like last time they will probably win by a landslide again this time round, chuck money at stuff for a few years until everyone forgets how shit it was under the tories and start getting jealous of poor people getting 'handouts' and start thinking of voting for a government that says they will rein in public spending again.

Round the roundabout we go again.

I remember that day so well!

All that hope! The glorious moment when Micheal Portillo lost his seat! 🤣

Me & partner stayed up late watching the results as we had a day off the next day!

Sat in a pub garden, in the sun, reading the papers, it was glorious!

There was so much hope, the culture of things seemed so much better, all the Brit pop & Cool Britannia stuff! No huge divides in society - there seemed to be less racism. It felt like things were on the up! 🤷‍♀️

fetchacloth · 13/11/2023 22:46

Busbygirl · 13/11/2023 21:09

My brother is a GP and he was laughing all the way to the bank under the Tony Blair government.
Given a huge huge pay rise, the new contract said no weekend or evening work and they never even asked for all that!
He’s part time now along with all the other GPs in his practice, as he earns a lot of £££££ thanks to labour.
Not sure there’s a shortage of GPs just non that need to work full time.
No wonder the NHS is in a mess. We’ve got labour to thank for that.

I'll never forgive Labour for that 😔

sofasofa42 · 13/11/2023 22:46

What an amazing thread. If I still lived in the UK .,, I would probably just not vote. In the South they just very uninspiring politicians in place because they basically know already where the vote will go.

OP, bring the change. Brexit was largely done by the now over 70's. Can the under 30's bring the change x

BasilPersil · 13/11/2023 22:48

Once more for the back - the global recession was caused by the global financial crisis; not the Labour party. Gordon Brown pretty much singlehandedly saved the global financial system from collapse.

OP- I was 16 in 1997 and I'll never forget the feeling the morning after the election. I'm from a working class ex mining area that was totally decimated- I wasn't taught in a classroom that didn't leak, 8 hour waits in A&E etc etc.

A lot has already been mentioned but there was a feeling of optimism- Britain meant something in the world, we were an exciting, forward looking country, European, with a young prime minister. I do remember having loads of passionate discussions on PFI, creeping privatization of public services etc- we recognised that would be a problem then. But at the same time the hospitals were falling down, the schools were derelict. Things can only get better. As they said.

Street homelessness almost disappeared, schools in London became brilliant, you could get medical attention! Stuff was still affordable. It felt like serious people, who cared, were in charge even if they didn't get it right.

Foreign policy was a binfire post 2001 it is true. The repercussions have been severe. But governments rarely move solo on foreign policy issues and I suspect we would have done similar if someone else was in charge.

I think it's important to remember a lot of this was pre mobile phone and social media, though, which means a better controlled narrative and less constant exposure to failings.

justasking111 · 13/11/2023 22:49

RobynRB · 13/11/2023 22:41

Oh, and the last Labour govt didn't build lots of council houses or end the right to buy either.

That was criminal. A friend works for a housing association some who've taken up the right to buy got into an awful mess financially. Things like house insurance, boiler repairs they simply hadn't budgeted for. Things went very wrong and she could no longer help them.

It should never have been allowed

BasilPersil · 13/11/2023 22:51

Oh they were crap on housing. Didn't have the bollocks to reverse the right to buy catastrophe of the Tories. But it mattered less at the time as rents were still cheap and house prices reasonable.

Everythinghasgonetoshit · 13/11/2023 22:53

Labour came in when I was 15 and to be honest, as a childless person I didn't get much benefit to Labour being in as it was badly timed really. By the time I wanted to buy a home ten years later they had skyrocketed in price. I also recall being hammered for tax despite being on a really low wage. It wasn't great, but I did have hope things would get better and I know children with SEN were looked after and their families supported, and other services actually functioned. Travel was pretty cheap too. I didn't earn much but could get to places cheaply, go abroad on a shoestring.

There was sleaze and corruption under Labour, but this lot are next level narcissistic weirdos. They are utterly vile. Labour were just your basic slimy money grabbers, this lot are out of control and appear off their face most of the time. I've had to work my arse off whilst having young kids and have pretty much stagnated materially in my life despite pretty good pay rises due to insane housing and childcare costs. We are a couple on over 70k and simply can't afford to buy a home. It seems that life is more on a knife edge and precarious under Conservatives. They want you to fail.

I think if i had my kids during Labour I would feel more positively about them, but sadly I just think they are the least worst option in a two party race due to my experience.

jamimmi · 13/11/2023 22:53

Not perfect but so much better. As a young family with 2 public sector working parents we felt supported, used sure start centers for support, could get GP and hospital appointments. We had family tax credit which helped with nursery fees and could use nursery vouchers to offset tax on child care. As an NHS worker I actually felt valued and listened too, hospitals didn't have leaky rooves and puddles inside as they do today. 18 week waits and 4 hour targets for a&e were brought in with the money to employ staff and modernise services_ we had staff who stayed and felt valued ..... just writing this males me realise how much things have changed 😒

Kendodd · 13/11/2023 22:53

In short it was better.

RafaistheKingofClay · 13/11/2023 23:01

DinaofCloud9 · 13/11/2023 21:44

I wonder if things would have been different if David had won. He was definitely more charismatic than Ed.

https://medium.com/@craig_walmsley/this-is-all-ed-milibands-fault-f221341eb108

It’s all Ed’s fault Grin

Seriously chaos with Ed miliband would have been so much better than the shit we got. And I say that as someone who stupidly voted Tory in 2010.

This is all Ed Miliband’s fault

Catastrophe is upon us.

https://medium.com/@craig_walmsley/this-is-all-ed-milibands-fault-f221341eb108

Kendodd · 13/11/2023 23:05

Perhaps somebody economically minded can explain something for me. Top up benefits are often blamed for suppressing wage growth by some posters and the argument is put that without them, employers would pay staff more. This same argument is often made about the minimum wage and that if we didn't have minimum wage, employers would pay staff more.

Please explain this to me. Why do you think employers would pay staff more?

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan at all of top up benefits
(but am of minimum wages) and think that employers hoarding profits is a
massive problem. I don't believe employers would pay more without top up
benefits or minimum wage legislation though. Low paid staff would just be even
poorer than they are now.

Crispedia · 13/11/2023 23:11

Not true Labour spent all the money during years of governing. Only deficits in last few years of Labour government. Deficits normal at times. Then global financial crash. Fault of many governments due to banking deregulation.

Austerity under Cameron/Osborne was an ideological choice to shrink state after global financial crash. Stymied growth, decimated public services. Obama after global economic crash boosted spending in US. Time for cuts a few years down the line post crash.

George Osborne's ideological austerity measures cost the UK half a trillion pounds of public spending.

Coincidentally, since 2009, the wealth of Britain's richest 1,000 people INCREASED by half a trillion pounds.

“A decade of austerity by the Conservative-led governments after 2010 resulted in more than half a trillion pounds of lost public spending and a weaker economy, a left-of-centre thinktank has calculated.”

“ This is why Professor Jo Michell of UWE Bristol suggests that reductions in government spending when the economy is under-performing can actually lead to higher levels of public debt and lower growth. And, new research backs this up: “Attempts to reduce debt via fiscal consolidations have very likely resulted in a higher debt to GDP ratio through their long-term negative impact on output.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/imf-austerity-doesnt-work-immigrants-working-class

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/its-official-austerity-economics-doesnt-work

Finally, people should not to fall into the 2010s trap of talking about public finances like household debt.

https://positivemoney.org/2018/10/a-government-is-not-a-household/

It’s Official: Austerity Economics Doesn’t Work

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/its-official-austerity-economics-doesnt-work

BarneyAteMyHomework · 13/11/2023 23:12

@Kendodd I think the argument is that by having minimum wage / top up benefits, people accept jobs that they otherwise couldn’t afford to accept. If people weren’t taking the jobs, employers would have to pay more or they wouldn’t have any staff.

I’m not sure I completely agree with that argument (I think people would just take the low paid jobs and live in poverty; what’s their alternative?).

I agree with you about top-up benefits, I think they incentivise some people not to work as much as they could to maximise the benefits. I also agree with the concept of a minimum wage.

Really I’d like to see some kind of control on wage multiples within firms - so the highest paid person can only earn, say, 10x the FTE salary of the lowest paid person

Clavinova · 13/11/2023 23:16

BasilPersil
Street homelessness almost disappeared

Clearly rising in London

July 2010
Migrants from new EU states increase London homeless tally.
UK capital's homeless now 4,000, from 2,500 three years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jul/05/migrants-new-eu-london-homeless 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/jul/07/london-homeless-rise https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jul/20/eastern-european-rough-sleepers-deported
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/aug/12/homeless-poles-rough-sleepers       

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