To ask what the country was like under a Labour government?

[user6776]

I'm too young to remember a proper Labour government. I was 12 when the Tories got voted in back in 2010 so that's all I've ever really known.

How much better was it than it is now? Why did Labour lose the election back then anyway?

Interested to hear people's opinions.

@cardibach / my poor posting.

Basically, when politicians start to fail in democracies they tend to blame their own people for voting in a way they do not like.

The final act before being thrown out of office is usually to tell the voters that their vote was wrong, and they should think harder and change their vote. If only they had a better people, all their policies could be achieved.

SNP are rapidly losing hold of Scotland. Last by election there was a Labour win. It could easily all go red again - but even without them, current polling shows that Labour would win with a comfortable majority.

I don't understand why anyone even supports the Conservatives, unless they're UKIPpy immigrant-hating types. They're not even fiscally conservative any more, for those who are that way inclined, and we have the highest tax burden in 70 years. Why you'd convince yourselves that 'tax would be higher under Labour' based on the current evidence just seems weird.

I still have no idea of the relevance of this. Or what it even means. Or why it’s relevant to Wales.

I had better quit when I am not ahead then!

This all started with Cameron's big society. Basically, we won't do our job to help those in need, we'll just get charities to do all that for us. And they've done it with housing and mental health too. At the same time as expecting volunteers to pick up the slack there was also pressure on the type of people who would volunteer to get back into work. Who the hell ran the Olympics?

Anyway, in answer to the OP's question - Labour lost the election because the Tories (who'd been an absolute shitstorm for most of the 12 years Blair was in office) had finally pulled themselves together and got a credible leadership team in place, and Brown (who was very personally unpopular anyway) and Darling were blamed (rightly or wrongly) for the 2008 economic crash and the resultant huge bank bailout that the taxpayer had to fund. Weirdly, this seems like nothing when you compare it to the way the Tories have blatantly robbed the economy during the pandemic, and gone on to act with all the integrity of Mafia gangsters on a daily basis, but it was a HUGE deal at the time.

And that's before we get onto the state of our rivers and seas

Not so good under Labour either:

April 2009 - British beach litter levels highest on record
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/08/beach-litter-record-levels-mcs

15 September 2009 - Panorama
Britain's Dirty Beaches
Sand, sea and sewage. With the quality of bathing water on the UK's beaches in decline...
https://www.sas.org.uk/updates/bbc-panorama-britains-dirty-beaches-part-1/

October 2009 - UK faces European court for allowing raw sewage to enter Thames
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/09/river-thames-pollution-european-union

Health care so much better... You phoned GP and had access to hundreds of appointments. Sure start centres were a lifeline. I trained as a professional and all costs paid. Could go around the food shop and not have to worry about what was it in the trolley.

Now it's depressing and awful.

So what has the Tory government done about it in 13 years? Your lot’s had over a decade to fix it so what have they been doing? And it will be the same response every single time you post “Yeah, but Labour …”. The Tories have been in power for nearly 14 years during which every single thing has got worse.

Private sector workers didn't enjoy the same level of pay rises given to the public sector.

Private sector workers saw their pension schemes plundered by Brown's tax raid on pensions.

BIossomtoes
Yeah, but Labour

You've not noticed the title of the thread then?

To ask what the country was like under a Labour government?

Hello Conservative apologist.

Clearly, seas and rivers are MILES worse now, because of toothless Ofwat and the fact that most water companies are foreign owned and they're leveraging huge debts to pay shareholder dividends rather than updating our massively out of date sewers/waterways. Interesting, too, that the UK's polluted waterways are an anomaly in Europe - it's almost as if the EU, which the Tories dragged us out of, has something to do with the fact that their rivers aren't close to being biologically dead, as well as their Governments just being less shit than ours.

Gordon Brown killed defined benefit/final salary pensions?

i think that's a bit of a reach.

defined benefit pensions were been a timebomb that was always going to go off at some point with an ageing population.

more people, drawing on average higher salary equivalent amounts from the pot, for longer. it was never sustainable.

And the simple answer is that it was better. On any measure you care to name.

I've been a social worker for too many years and I started my employment in 1997. When Blair was elected.

We had

Sure Start Centres free for everyone. So Families from all different social economic backgrounds mixed. Social work teams were based in community hubs. Social workers and support workers knew their patches, knew the people and usually lived there too. We had neighbourhood based police teams. You saw police officers on the street....I could go on and on......

Private sector pay has been held back by the lack of public sector payrises since 2010 due to lack of competition. Wage growth was almost non-existent until very recently. After this, allowing wages to increase suddenly was always going to lead to inflation - which it has. The Tories stuck us into a cycle of an ever-stagnant, non-growing, non-productive economy which it's now incredibly difficult to break out of.

horseyhorsey17
Hello Conservative apologist

Interesting, too, that the UK's polluted waterways are an anomaly in Europe

To be fair - Ireland has been doing its best to join the club;

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2022/10/20/only-51-of-irish-wastewater-treated-to-eu-standards-says-report/

school standards were lower but teachers were happier.

Did I say people don't need a good diet and they just need to get outside more?

Yes, this is what you said. Several times. Let's take a look....

And you may have had a dabble with Google, but NICE studies (a reliable source) show that 87% of adults have below 75nmol/L over the winter months and the Dept of Health therefore recommends supplementation over winter. So yes, I maintain that you're wrong.

If you live in a hot country and go through a bout of cloudy or poor weather, then your body can hold Vitamin D in fat, but not so simple in the UK. And like I already said, Vitamin D alone is not the whole story - it is linked with the absorption of other minerals and vitamins. Nutrition and lifestyle is complex, and requires a careful balance. You don't just tell people to pop their kids outside when they can't afford to nourish them through their diets?! Astonishing.

Sunlight may be most efficient way of acquiring Vit D, but its not enough. And yes, I will argue with some stranger on the Internet, or anyone in real life, or frankly anyone, who looks down their nose at struggling families, and tells them, 'pooh, those children just need to be outside more, they don't need feeding properly'.

Shame on you.

You seem to be ignoring the bit where I said IMO education re: health/nutrition plays a huge part and sadly that is not great in this country. I never said peopel don't need a good diet.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about how is the best way to get vitamin d and how it is stored. I never mentioned any other vits/minerals and I'm not really very interested in discussing other vits/minerals as my original post was in answer to a PP talking about Vitamin D.

As for you accusing me of looking down my nose at struggling families/shame of you/etc, etc you clearly have an axe to grind on this wider issue and for some reason you've decided I'm a good target 😁

And also the Murdoch press turned on them. This is undeniable. The deal that Blair made with them in '97 came to an end.

What utter utter shit. The fact that people still spout such fucking arrant tosh is depressing.

I must admit it will be interesting to see what Labour do when they are in power as predicted. New Labour in 97 inherited a strong economy with money to spend so they could put money into everything. This time they are inheriting a failed economy with nothing in the pot so it will be up to them to build it up, something which they historically haven't achieved in the recent past.

Starmer is just a decent bloke who came from a normal family. 100% improvement on any of the Tories.Happy to vote for him .