AIBU to ask if the term "Swivel eyed loon" is OK to use?

[PampassGrass56]

Somone used this term today. I was wondering if it is socially unacceptable /non PC to use this terminology?

I'd assume that 'swivel-eyed' = a mocking reference to a disability, and 'loon' = a shorthand for 'lunatic'. So it's not a term I would use.

I'd be very surprised if many people who use the term know that a loon is a bird, and still more surprised if they know that those birds have swivel eyes. That might be how the expression originated, but I doubt that's how it's used now. Why would anyone want to compare someone to a harmless diving bird? It's more likely, surely, that the term is used as an insult in the way that I (and others) have suggested.

The phrase has nothing to do with the bird and is considered offensive.

Moron/loon/nutter are words of the past, meant jokingly (without thought of origin or impact) but now have been more thought about & become offensive.

The earliest usage I can find is from 1983 and was “swivel-eyed leftie lunatic”.

So loon appears to be short for lunatic, nothing to do with the birds.

’Swivel-eyed’ meaning ‘crazy’ seems to be much older and attaching it to ‘loons’ seems to be fairly recent.

Nothing is acceptable these days.

No matter what you say, someone will find a way to be offended.

I hadn’t thought of that context but the bird ‘loon’ so was puzzling why it wouldn’t be PC.

I can't help feeling there is a sinister Canadian influence on this thread. A strong pro-loon contingent... random moose just posting what they feel like. Who the hell is giving all these moose access to the internet anyhow? I'm keeping my eyes peeled for real maple syrup and tuques.
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Loon short for lunatic, that comes from the lunatic asylums of old. Swivel eyes, the crazy darting about of the eyes that medication used to give- is how I perceive it. Not at all nice saying to use.

Guardian uses it https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2013/may/22/how-to-spot-swivel-eyed-loon

I’m sure Adrian Mole uses it in one of his diaries. It’s always been one of my favourite terms of abuse. I’m not sure I particularly use it but if I did it would only be amongst close friends, never in a work context etc etc

I always thought it meant people were crazy and had divergent eyes or eyes affected by their mental health condition. I have always thought it to be very derogatory

That Guardian article confirms it really, nastily mocking people with squints which is really horrible and people with squints do get treated as lesser. Most squints are treatable but some aren’t. Having a squint can lead to double vision or visual impairment so not something that people can control.

Anyone using the term loon to describe a bird is from North America. They're called divers in Europe.

And swivel-eyed loon has nothing to do with the bird!

It's nothing whatsoever to do with birds

It's short for loony/lunatic

And no, you can't insult anyone these days. Private Eye still does, but not to the extent it used to. Mocking those in the public eye is a pale shadow of its former self.

Also it's an echo of "thou cream faced loon" (which really wouldn't sound as intended these days)

It’s meant as an insult. I wouldn’t use it outside the home. I didn’t know it was first used against the lefties. Funny how that got turned around and it’s now about Tory activists of little brainpower and much pointless agitation.

‘Gammon’ is a fantastically brief and descriptive term. Nails it perfectly.

I’ll stop using these lame excuses for using these terms. Oops, can’t say ‘lame’ either.

I think the phrase 'swivel eyed loon' refers directly to a zealot with objectionable ideas.

Such people have always existed and I don't think anyone ever confused them for people with mental health difficulties, even in the bad old days where such conditions were not treated with compassion

Sorry @WoollyBat I was going to say you have a good point but somehow edited it out

I assumed it originated from lunar as the moon was thought to affect people's behaviour. (Still is).

I don’t actually think it means a squint. If you have a squint your eyes don’t move around more. To me the “swivel” part makes me think of someone who’s really agitated or in an extreme state and their eyes are darting around - maybe like a panic attack or the extreme zeal mentioned. More of an emotional or mental than physical thing.

this thread is also making me think of “mad-eye Moody” in HP. I know Rowling has been criticised for “isms” before but is it ok to say someone has a mad eye (even if it’s magic)?

I mean I’ve had MH problems myself including panic attacks and I don’t feel remotely offended (though I know some might) A very significant percentage of people have or have had some form of mental illness, but I bet there’s hardly anyone who never talks about a “mad idea” or “that’s crazy”.

The policing of what you can say really dismays me sometimes - even though I do understand it, and I do think there are things you shouldn’t say, it does sometimes feel like we’re going to end up with everything so dull and devoid of colourfulness.

That article is a decade old and was written off the back of a Tory MP (can't recall which) calling grass roots anti-EU activists as swivel eyed loons. Farage used it to recruit those types to UKIP. No one was taking thr threat of an EU exit very seriously at that time. They were seen as a fringe group of oddballs, if I am allowed to call them that. It was a descriptor for the right wing, who have now taken over the main stage.

It's acceptable if referring to the swivel eyed loons of the Tory Brexity right, for whom David Cameron, quite rightly, originated the phrase. Nobody else deserves the term.

I would assume it means lunatic and therefore is really ableist and offensive. The same as other derogatory words relating to mental illness or disability.

The swivel eyed part is just really horrible because of referring to the physical appearance of someone with eye problems.

Of course it’s nothing to do with the bird (and, as someone points out, the birds aren’t even called ‘loons’ in Europe, they’re called ‘divers’).

Its a combination of two derogatory terms for people with mental illnesses.

Do you work for Daviid Cameron OP? No sooner have you asked your question than he's back in government, turfing out the swivel-eyed loons of yesteryear. Away they go, Suella in the lead. Nobody need ever mention them again with a bit of luck. 👋

Funny, I hadn’t thought of DC in years, and here he pops again. I’m disappointed to see he hasn’t aged more. The country is certainly more decrepit because of him.

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Couldn't believe it when they announced today that David Cameron is back in government. He's not even an MP!
Yes, he was indeed the one who made many references to Swivel Eyed Loons!