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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Anyone up? New house crisis!

50 replies

Kat256M · 11/11/2023 01:06

Ok I can't sleep and I need opinions here!

We are in the process of buying a flat. Today, I noticed that another flat came on the market on the same building but £50k less than we are paying. I called the agency and they told me it was cash buyers only because they has issues with mortgages...weird as ours was easy to secure.

They just updated the listing to say that they expect some internal work to be done in 2024 and it would cost each flat about £10k!! Explains the issues with their price. Our seller never disclosed this! I received some paperwork yesterday and there it is buried a study from 2017 about a party wall needed to be upgraded or something. Maybe that is it? But they said nothing about that imminent cost that would be huge for us. Is it unreasonable to be soooo annoyed?? I sent our estate agency a strongly worded email and I am waiting for a reply.

What should I expect back? Price reduction? By how much? Or is it normal to try and hide things like that? I feel like they tried to take advantage of us and we just got lucky with the other listing.

OP posts:
LaurieStrode · 11/11/2023 01:14

Have you actually viewed the other flat?

BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:15

LaurieStrode · 11/11/2023 01:14

Have you actually viewed the other flat?

I think you've missed the point

Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 01:17

LaurieStrode · 11/11/2023 01:14

Have you actually viewed the other flat?

It is more about the hidden cost than the other flat. I haven't seen it but is is exactly the same floorplan but two floors up from us. We gave higher ceilings though.

We really like our flat....I just don't like they way they handled the issue and don't know if I am overeacting.

OP posts:
Ponoka7 · 11/11/2023 01:19

Didn't your survey uncover that? You need clarification and a price reduction. They may not go for the price reduction, so you'll have to decide if you want the flat with the potential extra £10k. Or you might be able to meet in the middle.

BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:20

Much depends on where you are with the buying process.

In this market as long as you have yet to exchange contracts the situation is in your favour.

Should this information have been disclosed- yes. Though again depending on where you are in the process your solicitor may/should have picked this up.

Is this a reason for a reduction in your offer? Absolutely yes if the information is validated.

Wait to see what the EA comes back with. Though I'd personally be very interested to understand why one flat was worth £50k less because that's significant even with the £10k work factored in.

WichenWick · 11/11/2023 01:25

When buying a flat it's important to ask a) how much money is in the management company bank account? and b) what big expenses are expected to be incurred in the next year and how much will they cost?

I don't think the seller has done anything wrong. It's not in their interests to point out things that are wrong with the place.

If the other flat is the same as yours in terms of condition and size then I'd discuss this with the estate agent to try to negotiate a reduction and if necessary withdraw from the purchase and make an offer on the other flat.

Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 01:29

BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:20

Much depends on where you are with the buying process.

In this market as long as you have yet to exchange contracts the situation is in your favour.

Should this information have been disclosed- yes. Though again depending on where you are in the process your solicitor may/should have picked this up.

Is this a reason for a reduction in your offer? Absolutely yes if the information is validated.

Wait to see what the EA comes back with. Though I'd personally be very interested to understand why one flat was worth £50k less because that's significant even with the £10k work factored in.

We haven't exchanged yet and you are right maybe they would pick it up at some point. Maybe. But the owner still should have mentioned it surely! The price and timeline for the work hasn't been agreed yet so I am worried about what the actual cost will be.

I think they had it on the market for the same price as mine but when their buyer left they decided to go cash only. I guess that lowers the price more? I am just scared we missed something now and feel sad I lost faith on the seller.

OP posts:
Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 01:35

WichenWick · 11/11/2023 01:25

When buying a flat it's important to ask a) how much money is in the management company bank account? and b) what big expenses are expected to be incurred in the next year and how much will they cost?

I don't think the seller has done anything wrong. It's not in their interests to point out things that are wrong with the place.

If the other flat is the same as yours in terms of condition and size then I'd discuss this with the estate agent to try to negotiate a reduction and if necessary withdraw from the purchase and make an offer on the other flat.

Maybe as a naive FTB I expected people to be more honest that they are...I hope that my email to the agency wasn't too abrupt then. I just panicked because after paying for the deposit and moving expenses a bill like that out of nowhere would be very hard to pay.

Sadly we can't really buy the other flat as it is cash buyers only.

I am on rightmove again after all these months. I just feel like crying.

OP posts:
BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:39

Having faith in a seller is always a mistake when buying a house.

It's a huge purchase and frankly you need to assume "the worst".

That why trying to cost cut costs on services they surveys and cheap conveyancing is short sighted.

Re: a flat (or any leasehold) you need to pay particular attention to the terms and conditions - "bargain" properties are rarely that. They a cheap for a reason.

I'd definitely put the sale on hold until you have a better grasp of the situation and your future liabilities here.

ChristieEve · 11/11/2023 01:42

Maybe the other flat is reduced for a different reason: a short lease or a tenant in situ may both render it unmortgageable.

It may be on the north side of the building so could be darker, it might not have a parking space etc, or maybe it's just on with another agent who has a different idea of what is achievable

All the same, it's a good job that the potential works have been drawn to your attention.

BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:44

Re: your latest post.

Don't panic yet. See what the EA comes back with.

Ask for more info as a pp has already directed on management company accounts, planned expenditure and importantly how annual fees are calculated/raised etc.

This may not be a bad thing. It's possible when you have all the information that you still want to proceed but have leverage to buy the property for a lower offer.

BreadInCaptivity · 11/11/2023 01:45

ChristieEve · 11/11/2023 01:42

Maybe the other flat is reduced for a different reason: a short lease or a tenant in situ may both render it unmortgageable.

It may be on the north side of the building so could be darker, it might not have a parking space etc, or maybe it's just on with another agent who has a different idea of what is achievable

All the same, it's a good job that the potential works have been drawn to your attention.

Agree

ThinWomansBrain · 11/11/2023 01:55

I live in a 4 storey block - the higher level apartments' value is generally higher - and the level/quality or refurbishment can vary greatly.
Your solicitor should have picked up on communal work/costs, and/or the surveyor.

Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 01:55

ChristieEve · 11/11/2023 01:42

Maybe the other flat is reduced for a different reason: a short lease or a tenant in situ may both render it unmortgageable.

It may be on the north side of the building so could be darker, it might not have a parking space etc, or maybe it's just on with another agent who has a different idea of what is achievable

All the same, it's a good job that the potential works have been drawn to your attention.

Yes something must be up there, I know it is worth more than that price, unless I missed something big (well something bigger that the £10k!). Both have a parking space, exactly same side of the building(it is exactly on top of mine two floors up), mine has a tenant in ironically but on a rolling contract and they are selling it vacant so mortgage went through. But it could be anything I guess...I just hope whatever it is doesn't affect my flat too.

FYI the service changes are INSANELY high but I knew about that so can't complain. They have a sinking fund with £23k in but the cost of whatever they are doing is huge. £10k per flat and it has 26/27 flats there.

OP posts:
Sugarfree23 · 11/11/2023 01:57

Wanting a cash buyer is a massive red flag, makes me want to run a mile.

It makes no difference to a seller if they get a bank transfer direct from you or from your lender.

Wanting a cash buyer indicates they are trying to sell something that mortgage companies wouldn't be happy to lend on, possibility a structural issue, or an issue with titles or leases. That in turn means it will be £££ to fix and probably very difficult to sell on.

Some structural issues are fairly easy to spot, like the one linked on here yesterday, massive hole in the bathroom roof, and i mean roof, not ceiling, watch the birds when in the bath. Lol Cash buyer only, you wouldn't need to be Sherlo ck to figure out why.

tolerable · 11/11/2023 01:58

crabstix in the ventilation??? a poo knife....?

Dibbydoos · 11/11/2023 02:02

Caveat emptor - buyer beware - applies ie if you don't ask, they don't need to disclose.

Let's hope the EA clears things up, but I'd be very pd off if there is such a big cost that's known that hasn't been factored into the price...

usertaken · 11/11/2023 02:09

Well of course the EA isn't going to admit to anything, because your sale is at an advanced stage.

What is £50k relative to the flat cost?

I have seen in London similar flats in the same block with large price variances.

I would be tempted to get a friend to enquire about this other flat, I suspect the EA might be telling lies.

Of course people can bring out the excuses, ie short lease, lower floor etc, but perhaps you need to rule out whether you have overpaid for yours, that also is an explanation.

Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 02:16

usertaken · 11/11/2023 02:09

Well of course the EA isn't going to admit to anything, because your sale is at an advanced stage.

What is £50k relative to the flat cost?

I have seen in London similar flats in the same block with large price variances.

I would be tempted to get a friend to enquire about this other flat, I suspect the EA might be telling lies.

Of course people can bring out the excuses, ie short lease, lower floor etc, but perhaps you need to rule out whether you have overpaid for yours, that also is an explanation.

Ours is £350k, the cash buy one £300k.

@Sugarfree23 I keep imagining what could be wrong with it and birds everywhere in the flat! Thank you for making me laugh I just feel so horrible tonight

OP posts:
JobStresserxo · 11/11/2023 02:23

Sorry to focus on another issue, but when is the tenant who lives in the flat you are buying leaving? Is it not a potential problem that they may be awkward about moving out? This could considerably delay your purchase.

Desolatewardrobe · 11/11/2023 02:24

The main driver of the much lower price is that it’s not mortgageable and presumably there’s a cost to fixing whatever the issue is. This is not a reflection on the value of the flat you’re buying, which does not have that issue. A pending 10K service charge is deeply annoying, and you need to find out the truth of that of course. But it would not in itself render the flat unmortgageable.

usertaken · 11/11/2023 02:25

I assume it's London/SE for that price, I bet in most developments that have multiple flats on the market the difference in price between the most expensive and the cheapest is more than £50k.

Is cash buyers only actually stated in the advert? Or any other reason?

Your own time horizon is important as well. If that other flat sells, let's say at £290k then when valuations of flats are taken into account then previous sold prices are quite relevant. If valuers are going to be cautious about the market it might be that they choose to value closer to the lower figure rather than the higher one.

That is not likely to be relevant now but may have an effect on future valuations for remortgaging or reselling.

Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 02:27

JobStresserxo · 11/11/2023 02:23

Sorry to focus on another issue, but when is the tenant who lives in the flat you are buying leaving? Is it not a potential problem that they may be awkward about moving out? This could considerably delay your purchase.

They are on 2 month notice and we don't need to be in until May. No chain at least!

It is a single man from the US who works in a company around the block since March. Has maybe a suitcase worth of clothes and 3 huge computer screens😀

OP posts:
Original poster
Kat256M · 11/11/2023 02:32

Thank you everyone for keeping me company while I try not to wake up my baby with my nervous walking up and down!

So it seems like as long as they come clean now with the extra charges and lower the price(by how much though?) it is not an uncommon situation? I am worried that they will stick with their price and I don't know what to do then.

OP posts:
Nanamuffin · 11/11/2023 02:42

So
when buying a flat in the documents and disclosures the seller should declare any major works. If not you can ask

Major works costs are then shared out between the flats. If this is in addition to the service charge.

The management information pack should have a lot of detail.

Is it ex local authority?

Key questions to ask:
Is it a rising ground rent? Old leases can have this and this could mean extortionate ground rents as the lease progresses and make it harder for you to sell
How long is the lease?
You already mentioned large service charges - check how much these have changed over the years and if it’s expected to rise much more in the next few years
Major works planned for in the next few years

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