To think the standard of living for retired people had to change

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I'm a millennial. I will retire in my seventies. Many in my age group will be still paying their mortgage off well into their sixties. Many will never be able to buy. This is not a moan about that.

My mums generation were able to buy cheaper houses in the eighties. Some have also inherited well (houses which their parents owned and didn't have to sell to pay for care, which had risen in price to above a million). They had better pension plans. Some were able to go to university for free and their degrees actually meant something in the workplace: They often paid off their mortgages in their forties. I see a lot of my parents relatives have retired early and have very enviable lives.

Two uncles have retired in their early sixties. They are both in good help. They spend their days on many holidays, eating out multiple times per week, going to garden centres, renovating their beautiful houses, helping children financially and with childcare. They will have presumably worked out their finances and could afford to continue to live like this for the rest of their lives! Possibly thirty more years!

I think they are possibly going to be unique in their quality of life. We will never have that and I don't see my children's generation having things any earlier.

In essence the generation before me were mostly fortunate, unless personal situations changed their financial situation or they lost their homes during the nineties interest rises. Retirements and pensions were never designed to support people for three decades and that things had to change hence raising the retirement age and making people pay more towards their care.

@poetryandwine how is this like apples and oranges? It would only be like this if everyone in the eighties and nineties were extremely frugal and everyone from 2000 has spent lots. People in the 80's and 90's spent money! They went to the hairdressers more often than my generation, they went to the pub more often, a lot of them smoked, they drank more.
It is ridiculous to assume that my generation can't get on the housing ladder because of spending too much. It's laughable.
You can look at social media but you will only see what you want to see. My friend is off to Costa Rica for a month. She's not a homeowner. Why shouldn't she travel? As a self employed single woman what is the likelihood she will ever be able to be a homeowner. She wouldn't meet eligibility. The most she could borrow would be 100K which would buy her nothing in this city. There's no point telling someone who's self employed and who's business is based around those with disposable income to move to a cheaper area, because the people in those area won't be able to pay for her services!
So yes some young people travel and buy stuff, but that's only because there is no point in attempting to save up for a house when no bank will lend you anywhere near enough to buy a house. Especially if the deposit they're asking for is around 40K.

I do agree with this post .Younger people do not have a chance of buying so agree that they should do other stuff with their earnings. But I still disagree with the general resentment towards the older generation who did not have a crystal ball to predict the future for their children. I personally do not agree that the elder generation should not be entitled to NHS care ,and all the other ageist shit that has been thrown around this thread !
Am now finishing my lunch break …grand total of 15 mins ,so I can carry on caring for these elderly people that so many despise!

WOW you are that guy...what a pleasant Millennial you are just proving that your generation are just moany and entitled. Some of us who are 60 have to work full time until they are 67 when my mortgage finishes and not able to help my own children with money or childcare either! I also live in a shared ownership house and once my mortgage has been paid off my rent will be more than half (at this moment) of the current predicted pension! Hopefully I will then be dead by then so I don't have to burden you! Yes there are people who have retired early with good pensions but more than not!

Of course, in an ideal world we "need to build up a private pension too" - which is indeed what I have done. However, many are unable to do so, or have only minimal savings: people on minimal wage (many of whom do essential jobs like working as hospital porters or in care homes), SAHPs, disabled people, etc.

These people then become dependent on benefits to have enough to live on when they retire. However, as we know, many do not apply for everythng they are eligible for because the process and the forms that need to be filled in can be very cumbersome.

My point was that it takes 35 years of contributions to be eligible for a state pension, i.e. unlike some seemed to think, one is not automatically entitled. Moreover, the state pension in the UK is a pittance compared to many other countries.

I find the hostility to 'old people' from some posters who seem to think that getting a state pension is an undeserved entitlement quite baffling.

@downdowndowndowndown
Did you see my message?

Being self-employed is a choice, you know. If owning property were a priority, she'd find a way to increase her income, even if it meant getting a regular job.

We all have the same 24 hours per day to pursue what is important to us.

So yes some young people travel and buy stuff, but that's only because there is no point in attempting to save up for a house when no bank will lend you anywhere near enough to buy a house. Especially if the deposit they're asking for is around 40K.

Thats fine, that is their choice but they can’t then complain that the “older generation” had it easy and they can’t afford to get on the housing ladder. They’ve made a choice to not bother trying. I know plenty of younger people who don’t have holidays abroad, car-share to get to work etc and are saving everything they can get the deposit required to buy their first home (and this is in the south east so not cheap to buy).

I find the hostility to 'old people' from some posters who seem to think that getting a state pension is an undeserved entitlement quite baffling.

There have been 1 or 2 nasty posts about old people that is true. But on the whole I've seen the hostility the other way around on this thread. The old have been clamouring to put forward all the reasons they're "entitled" to more than anyone else OR they've been talking about how hard it was for them, and implying that young people have it easy.
The absolute fact of the matter is, there are not enough workers to support the amount of retired we are going to be expected to support, if they expect to keep their lifestyle.
More stuff should be means tested. Other age groups are, and elderly are already means tested for pension credit anyway so theres no reason why it would be hard to do or expensive.
There is no reason why the elderly should get the raft of freebies they currently get just by virtue of their age when it's leaving other generations screwed (and it is, look at house prices, education, the NHS) there just isn't enough money. Old people should get their pensions, the triple lock should be scrapped, and the pensions should rise in line with wages, and all the other benefits should be means tested. Just like they are for everyone else. (Except maybe bus passes, which I do think are worthwhile to society as a whole if they stop elderly people driving who shouldn't be)
The fact is there are almost twice as many families living in poverty as there are elderly. That doesn't mean all elderly are rich but as a demographic they are the richest.
But I'm just waiting to hear all the reasons that this view makes me "agist"

Yet again I do not detest older people or begrudge them state pensions. I don't think they should have anything but the best. It's the constant narrative pushed that millennials are all work shy and financially irresponsible which irritates me.
Ok so my friend stops being self employed then who does your nails, services your bike, cuts your hair, runs stalls at the school fair, serves you mulled wine and roast chestnuts at the Christmas market? It's funny how some of the older generation are so sure that everything we do is a 'choice' rather than a necessity. We need self employed business owners, we need healthcare workers, we need bankers, we need baristas, we need local authority workers. Gloating that all young people should only focus on doing one sort of work which makes them as much money as possible neglects to think of all the professions which you need to make your retirement better.

The rules changed in the 1970s. Which I accept is closer to 50 years ago now than 40

I did find an article in the Guardian which said UK, 1982: Women are allowed to spend their money in English pubs without being refused service.

Amazing!

And this in the US: 1974: Equal Credit Opportunity Act passes in the US. Until then, banks required single, widowed or divorced women to bring a man along to cosign any credit application, regardless of their income. They would also discount the value of those wages when considering how much credit to grant, by as much as 50%.

France, 1881: France grants women the right to own bank accounts; five years later, the right is extended to married women, who are allowed to open accounts without their husbands’ permission. The US does not follow suit until the 196os, and the UK lags until 1975.

Very Few have it easy these days.
That does not mean we, as a country, we should not support those that need support.
Whether it’s, schooling, social care, the nhs, mental health, drug addiction, homelessness, etc etc etc People experiencing these extra needs, whatever their age, need support by those that are not experiencing the same.

If that means a Shake up in spending and taxes, which it clearly does, then it’s time our Government bit the bullet and dealt with it.

People becoming bitter about other peoples needs doesn’t solve the issue and simply turns one set of people against another.

Campaign for your rights, write to your MPs and vote accordingly.

It's the constant narrative pushed that millennials are all work shy and financially irresponsible which irritates me

I agree with you on that - I was reading an article in the Times today by an overspending 27 year old and people made it a generational thing in the comments, whereas it's simply the case that some people regardless of age are better with their money than others.

I hope to see the whole concept of social generations end up in the dust balls of history as a odd hypothesis with no backing that it is. The idea that people born around the same time have similar circumstances, problems and benefits wasn't that solid when it was invented in the late 1800s - it was really only useful in small geographic areas even then - and makes even less sense now when it gets regularly applied to the whole countries or more as a marketing ploy and a great way for media to turn groups against each other. Even Pew Research came out this year and said it's basically nonsense that does more harm than good because it's too entrenched in stereotypes, shouldn't be a default lens, and they're only going to use it when there actually data between groups when they were same age where direct comparisons can be made, and that's far less common than media likes to suggest. Generations should be used for families, not entire populations.

There is no objective standard that fits all retired people at all, let alone that the government is funding. As for how is the government going to continue to fund pensions and other benefits for those above a certain age - the UK like many countries is going to have to go through the pain of the bulge and as others said, it's been something much discussed but the can keeps being kicked down the road. I imagine many of us are going to have to rely more on each other and those in our lives than the government that even while saying otherwise encourages people to rely for most things on them to maintain power. I think it's part of why they love to talk about community while doing what they can to hinder it.

I was born in the mid-80s. I was raised around many adults who were in poor health from an early age, many through military events, work & car accidents and/or drugs. My own parents - late 50s & early 60s born - made terrible decisions with their relationships, money and the many drugs available and now live very unenviable lonely lives in a country with a lot less social support and will likely work until they die pickled. They heard how awful they were when they were young, how spoiled and irresponsible they were and some of them like my parents are prime examples of it. Most of any 'generation' just deal with life and pleasures and sufferings that come to everyone.

I'm pretty content as I am and have no envy towards pensioners. Part of that is my temperament, part of that is actively choosing to live in a place and way that I can do most of what I want, and part of it is the people around me - most people my age I know are pretty content, most of the post-pension age people I know are open to sharing the pains they go through, the losses, the struggles, the loneliness - they're not so different. At least those that are still alive, I've known more than a few born in the 40s, 50s, and early 60s who seemed quite healthy until they suddenly died and even more who decided not to take up further medical treatment to extend their lives when their health deteriorated.

I can think of a lot more government waste than elderly people's comfort and I think pushes to target different groups one way or another on the grounds that it 'isn't sustainable' rather than look at how unsustainable governments of all types have inflated themselves to grow their own powers and abilities isn't in our best interest, but the interest they push.

I just watched that lecture - very interesting. The boomer generation are taking up to £250k out of the pot than they paid in. So he suggests more tax on assets. As assets give people a much greater wealth than salary it makes it much harder for those trying to buy a house with just their salary (no inheritance). So he suggests a £10k 'citizens inheritance' for young people.

It’s hardly that persons fault that the house they bought had all that.
I’m a millennial and we furnished our first house entirely with hand downs from family and second hand items until we could buy some better pieces.
In turn I’ve advertised things I’ve replaced or just no longer need and there are loads of young people all asking to purchase my cheap items.
Just because some young people expect brand new everything, doesn’t mean they all are like that. No one I know is like that.

I think this notion that younger people will need be able to buy is over-egged. I know plenty of young people who have bought properties. My own DC (having taken financial advice) is on target to buy next summer, late 20s, single person.

Maybe some think we all live in London.

Yes, I don't think I'd know how to. But it does sound nice to have one warm room rather than freezing in every room!

I worked part-time from 15, left school in 1972 at 17, and am still working at 68.

Private pensions weren't really a thing when I was younger, and I never could have afforded to pay in the sort of amount that would have got me a decent pension anyway, thanks to paying interest rates well into double figures on my mortgage. I have a small public sector pension, around £330 a month, and pay tax on all of it, and on most of my earnings, because my state pension uses up most of my personal allowance. I could manage just on my pensions, but there would be precious little left for emergencies, or for anything much more than the basics.

I will have to move to a cheaper area before I can stop work. The thought of being constantly stressed about the cost any time something on the house needs fixing does my head in.

In some ways, I'm quite jealous of MIL, who's 85. She only worked for around 15 years (was a SAHP for most of her adult life), so doesn't get the full state pension, but her pension credit is only £2 a week more than my state pension. But she has got a council house, rent covered by housing benefit and doesn't have to pay any council tax, but whenever anything goes wrong with it, she just picks up the phone and the council fix it. She's had new windows and doors, plus a new boiler, bathroom and kitchen in the last few years. I've had to save up for mine (still saving for the kitchen!). And even if I gave up work, I'd still have to pay a good chunk of my council tax (approx £60 a month), because of my private pension.

I don't even have a bedroom to carry a sofa bed to! I don't have a sofa bed just a sofa that I sleep on in the living room and I know of others that are doing the same.

updownleftrightstart · Today 15:25

Wetellyourstory · Today 12:12

Yeah, l was struck by this when ds and his friends bought houses. They all had to be perfect when they moved in. Fully furnished and decorated.

im pretty sure this isn't actually true. Where do you buy a fully furnished house? I've never even heard of such a thing

They did it up before the moved in! Because they were living at home!

They didn’t buy one fully done up!🙄is that even possible?

@Hotandsunny it’s quite clear that some people on this thread have no idea what life is like for some people today.
Though really all you have to do is give up your avocado and toast, your daily Starbucks, your 17 tv subscription services and your trips to Ibiza and you’d be able to buy a 3 bed house and not have to sleep in the living room🙄

No, I just remember him as an MP. No agenda. 🙂

I think the older people recounting the difficulties they have faced in their lives are only reacting to the OP suggesting that most older people are rich and have had charmed lives. I don’t see many people suggesting that younger people are workshy or lazy. Most of us have children and grandchildren and are very much aware of the housing crisis etc. Many people try to help their own families. I also think a lot of women who were discriminated against in their younger years are frustrated that their fight for change isn’t recognised. I agree with the poster who said that it’s time we stopped dividing the population into generational bands and stereotyping.

Trust me...it wasn't good. We lived in draughty housing. Windows used to freeze inside. And I remember the scrimping and saving to pay for the coal delivery. And then, to pay for the chimney sweep..nothing was subsidised. You paid or you didn't get.

Im glad later generations have the benefit of better insulated homes and better heating. I've got ACs and they were certainly pleased with the £400 subsidy last year.🙂