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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To call in sick at work

108 replies

Katypp · 09/11/2023 12:24

I have already posted this in the Work topic but posting again for more responses.
I found out yesterday that my job is at risk of redundancy. Not wanting to go into too much detail, I am in a team of seven, all with different specialities but no-one sticks to these and everyone basically mucks in and does everything. On certain shifts this general work is required for the whole time.
I have been told that my specialist area is no longer required and the company needed to concentrate on the other things my team (including me) do already.
I am the only one in the team at risk, so I am pursuing this as unfair.
In the meantime, I am looking for advice about calling in sick from today. I was on late shift last night (after the bombshell in the morning - meetings etc done before I actually started work) and had to spend seven hours doing the work that was not my speciality area and the very work management have said they want more of, hence getting rid of me.
Am I reasonable to call in sick citing stress on that basis?

OP posts:
Katypp · 12/11/2023 09:43

Neriah · 12/11/2023 07:59

You need to control the anger and think clearly. They are not acting unfairly. Yet. They have identifed your post as being at risk. They must enter a consultation period and you must engage with that. As part of that consultation period you must put your case as to why they can look at other options. At the end of which they may agree with you. Or they may decide that they can be cleverer about it and still get rid of you - ensuring the fair criteria for selction fit the people you want rid of is really easy. @PawnsRooksKnight is correct - awards are much lower than most people think, and given you have already obtained other employment it would be even lower - and that is assuming you have a case anyway, because, as I have already said, if you already have other employment then you cannot claim unfair dismissal / unfair selection because you have obtained other employment before you are selected.

And tribuals are not a walk in the park - the process is lengthy, they will drag on and they get very stressful.

Your anger can easily lead you astray. What if they do the unexpected - don't select you or even worse, offer you your job back. You can refuse to continue to work for them. but that will certainly have an adverse impact on any claim, and you might get stuck working for people that you don't want to work for. Who may be biding their time anyway.

At only just over two years employment, your claim isn't worth much, you may not win (what you think is a great argument isn't the same thing as winning - and despite what ACAS or a lawyer might tell you, it's surprising how many great cases lose!), and operating fuelled by anger is the fastest way to make errors of judgement. Because, and I promise you this, even if you win or get a settlement to avoid a tribunal (assuming you even get that far) they won't learn a thing from it - except to be more careful the next time. If they are acting unfairly, they don't care and won't ever.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my ranting. I do appreciate you trying to talk me down.
I would counter argue the selection process is already unfair as they have only identified me to be at risk when I am part of a team all doing the same thing. I understand what you are saying that they have not actually made me redundant yet but as the only one identified as at risk, that puts me at the front of the queue and is fundamentally unfair.
I am fully intending to engage in the consultation process but as jobs have got to go and as this is the 4th round this year, I think the liklihood of not losing a body is fairly slim (unlike the other times, they have not asked for volunteers) and as I am the only one at risk, it will be me.
My gripe is about the unfairness of signalling me out rather than identifying a job had to go in my team. I have no doubt if they want to get rid of me, they could skew the selection process to arrive at me, but they haven't done that. I have asked for the selection criteria and all I have had back is that they identified that my role was at risk.
Yes I am angry but I am not stupid. I have no expectation of a large payout, so it's not about money really. My old employer will take me back at any point so I will let the process run its course before going back, although securing new employment does not mean there is no unfair dismissal, it just means any compensation will be lower as there are no income worries.
Finally, I agree that it's unlikely to make my employer act much differently in future but that's not a reason to do nothing I feel.

OP posts:
Neriah · 12/11/2023 14:47

I would counter argue the selection process is already unfair as they have only identified me to be at risk when I am part of a team all doing the same thing. I understand what you are saying that they have not actually made me redundant yet but as the only one identified as at risk, that puts me at the front of the queue and is fundamentally unfair.

But not in law it isn't. The point of consultation is for both sides to listen to what the other has to say. You have decided it is unfair (and I agree here is possibly good cause for that) but you have not heard why they think this; and they haven't heard why you think it is unfair, so they have had no opportunity to consider alternatives. "Unfair" and "unfair in law" are very different things.

My old employer will take me back at any point so I will let the process run its course before going back, although securing new employment does not mean there is no unfair dismissal, it just means any compensation will be lower as there are no income worries.

You have a job offer. If they find out - and that could even include if the question came up at a tribunal - then yes, it actually can mean that you cannot claim unfair dismissal because you are "setting them up" when you have no intention of staying anyway because you have another job.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, simply urging that you cool down and don't make decisions based purely on anger. Being selected for being at risk and being made redundant, or even remaining as the only one made redundant might be unfair but the law is far more complicated than that, and stacked with the employer. As both a manager and a trade unionist I can tell you with absolute certainty that you currently have NO case, despite what you may have been told, because a case is determined on the end facts, not the beginning facts. I can also tell you with certainty that any employer worth a spit can still spin this as entirely fair in law - because I could based solely on what you have already told us, and a bit of the "inspired thinking" that employers use to justify decisions that aren't justifiable.

As I said, personally I'd accept the other job and then be ill for the rest of my notice period because that is the line of least resistance, providing your former employer is "in the bag". Or they might just pay you something to go quietly if you hang on and argue. But do remember that employment tribunals are lengthy coming around, time consuming, stressful, and risky, and so you will be using up your free time for a long time to come still living with this anger; and that isn't healthy. But in the end it is your decision obviously - just be realistic that it will come at a cost to you, and even if you win, you may not feel any better about it.

Katypp · 17/12/2023 08:16

By way of an update, I will be made redundant on 15 January. I have been told there was no selection matrix, just that they don't have the luxury of someone doing my dedicated role anymore. I am spending this weekend on rota doing general work. My manager is encouraging me to take voluntary redundancy so I can leave ASAP and be paid up.to 15 Jan. As the agreement will include a clause preventing me from taking action, I am not accepting it. Still angry.

OP posts:
ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 17/12/2023 09:24

Really sorry to hear that OP Flowers

Eleganz · 17/12/2023 09:49

Sorry to hear that OP. The voluntary redundancy is likely to be a better financial package than compulsory so you are probably best off taking it. Make sure there are no gagging clauses though. You should be able to talk about your experience even if legal action is off the table.

I presume that your previous employer is still going to welcome you back?

Katypp · 17/12/2023 12:36

It's no surprise at all. I knew I wasn't overreacting or jumping the gun as I was accused of doing as being put in a pool of one during the 4th round of redundancies this year was always going to end in my going. I am not being offered an enhanced package to volunteer but my manager is quite keen for me to go ASAP as I think they have realised I know what I am talking about and they have not followed a fair process.
So my plan is to say I will consider taking voluntary redundancy (they have already said it will be reported as compulsory regardless) if they will give me an enhanced settlement. If not, I am there till the end then will start the paperwork and process for an unfair dismissal claim

OP posts:
Katypp · 19/12/2023 08:14

If anyone is still interested, I asked to see the settlement agreement I would have to sign if I took VR and was told I could not see it until I volunteered. So that's not happening.

OP posts:
Crazycrazylady · 19/12/2023 16:47

Honestly op. You are dead right to fight for best settlement you can get your hands on.
It's seems fairly clear that they do want you gone for some reason.
Hopefully they will up their offer a bit and you can sail off into the sunset with a better settlement.
I'm not sure it would be worth pursing a unfair dismissal case in these circumstances. They're hard to win and in the event that it is ruled that they didn't follow due process. They would simply start the process again and still make you redundant at the end
Not worth the agro I would think especially as you have a job to go to.

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