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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think landlords like this should be illegal?

27 replies

landlordwoes11 · 07/11/2023 08:49

My small business rented a commercial property for around 3 years. Landlord basically none existent during this time other than their managing agents sending an invoice for rent every month. Some large company hours and hours away in a city the other side of the country.

Anyway, the last year has been really tough so we had to move to a smaller premises to be able to stay afloat.

I issued notice (6 months!) to the landlords agent and asked them to confirm they had sent this on. During the entire time I rented the property I never saw, spoke, or corresponded with the actual landlord it was all via their agent, everything was to go through them.

Anyway, notice sent, agent confirmed landlord received. I continued to send emails to the agent up until the leaving date to remind them I was going.

Comes to the week before I'm leaving and the agent informs me my notice is invalid. Turns out stuck in the very back of the lease (not even in the clause about notice) it says any official correspondence must be sent tracked delivery to the landlord.

My friend who's a solicitor but not specialising in commercial property spoke to someone at her work who informed her it's common practice, albeit morally bankrupt, for these companies to ignore an invalid notice and appear to accept it and purposefully wait until the last minute when it's then too late.

I am now stuck in the lease for another 2 years (can only give notice at 3 or 5 years).

I also have another property now too. Obviously I am falling behind with rent on the old place now.

I haven't been back to the old property since, but happened to be going past the other week and notice the Landlord has put padlocks on the door (which means I'm essentially renting somewhere I couldn't get in if I wanted to), I had a look and apparently this means the landlord has forfeited the Lease themselves.

But no, they are refusing to accept this. Even going so far as to deny doing it. I sent them pictures showing the locks and have had nothing but radio silence since, except of course to continually send me invoices for rent daily.

AIBU to think these landlords are corrupt and should be illegal. I'm just a normal person trying to make a living, with children to feed and this whole situation is a massive stress. I feel harassed receiving invoices every day by their agents, conned by the initial situation and now like I'm being taken for a fool (insisting I pay rent but padlocking the building).

OP posts:
landlordwoes11 · 07/11/2023 08:53

Oh and obviously as I'm still "renting" the old place they still have my deposit (which is ££££'s) which I had to find again for the new place.

OP posts:
OnlyFannys · 07/11/2023 08:55

Op that's terrible, it might be wise to move this to legal and see if you can get some proper advice (I wouldn't know where to start but there are lots of incredible, savvy people on mumsnet who might be able to)

MooFroo · 07/11/2023 08:57

Oh no that’s awful! Have you spoken to a solicitor? Get professional help quickly

also get a ‘friend’ to enquire about availability of the new premises and offer a higher rent than youre paying and see if they’re willing to rent it out? Helps provide its available by the landlord

hope you get it sorted x

landlordwoes11 · 07/11/2023 09:17

So when it was first going on, they agreed to consider letting it if I had found an interested party. I did, I made adverts online, spent time speaking to people I know in the industry etc.. and got them about 7 interested parties in the end. They either never replied or ended up going silent eventually on all of them. They weren't requesting more rent than I was already paying so I guess they thought why bother going through the paperwork when I'm already paying rent for fuck all.

Since then, admittedly, I've taken more of a stand. I've decided I'm not breaking my back to make the rent for the blood suckers so I'm behind with it now. And I've told them I'm not accepting any arrears for the period AFTER I noticed the locks had been put on, why should I pay for a property I couldn't even enter and from as far as I can understand from the lease, this act means they have forfeited the lease so I'm refusing to acknowledge myself as a tenant any longer.

Unfortunately I can't really afford a solicitor right now. I've had quotes but they are all in the thousands for commercial lease issues.

OP posts:
whatkatydid2013 · 07/11/2023 09:17

I agree on moving to legal where someone with expertise can advise you. I do wonder if the agent has any liability here if they confirmed landlord’s receipt &/or if that can be viewed as acceptance of the notice from the landlord. Regardless of the legalities agree totally that from a moral perspective this is pretty shameful behaviour.

Teddleshon · 07/11/2023 09:25

That is beyond appalling and behaviour that is not in good faith.

FartSock5000 · 07/11/2023 09:33

@landlordwoes11 your insurance should include legal help.

Ohdearwhatnow4 · 07/11/2023 09:38

Do you have lease insurance, ask for advice from them

Ohdearwhatnow4 · 07/11/2023 09:38

Sorry cross post

Haydenn · 07/11/2023 09:42

I’d imagine because they have confirmed receipt that they have accepted the notice.

They would’ve been able to say that the notice wasn’t accepted because of the delivery method- however they have actually confirmed that they accepted the notice to you

poetryandwine · 07/11/2023 09:43

OP,

This is appalling. I am so sorry. If your insurance doesn’t cover legal assistance I wonder if ACAS or CAB could help, even though it is outside their usual remit? Or if you could bring a legal case yourself?

poetryandwine · 07/11/2023 09:43

I agree with @Haydenn about the confirmed receipt

landlordwoes11 · 07/11/2023 09:49

I did wonder that myself but it was never actually the landlord that said they've received it. It was their agent. And looking back their correspondence was, purposefully I imagine, vague. I.e. replying to my asking them to confirm the landlord had received the notice with "all correspondence we receive is sent to the landlord" rather than yes they have.

OP posts:
Caroparo52 · 07/11/2023 09:53

Is the agent actually the landlord as well? Just a thought...

LoreleiG · 07/11/2023 09:56

I think you need to take legal advice to get out of this contract.

nicnoo99 · 07/11/2023 10:00

The RICS (chartered surveyors) can provide pro bono advice on lease matters.
I think there is also case law suggesting that notices should be understood as 'reasonable' person would, if that makes sense.
If any of the parties involved (agents) are involved with the RICS I would consider threatening to/reporting them, and this behaviour is not in line with the ethical expectations.

FriendsReunited · 07/11/2023 10:04

Please don’t rely on an informal question your solicitor friend asked a colleague. Legal advice isn’t something that lawyers just ‘know’, it’s something that takes time to work out. If you hire a property litigation solicitor they’ll do some research on this exact question, have a think about possible strategies, and probably come up with a way to get you out of this. If you just didn’t serve notice at all that’s one thing but you’ve had multiple contacts with the agent and the agent has apparent authority on behalf of the landlord. If the agent deliberately deceived you then that has legal consequences. Locking you out also has legal consequences! Speak to a property litigation solicitor (not a conveyancing solicitor) asap, get them to draft a letter threatening to sue both agent and landlord. It might also be a good idea to stop paying rent and make it clear that if they try to force you to stay you will become a nightmare ‘tenant’ but your solicitor can help you discuss different strategies.

fyn · 07/11/2023 10:37

Also suggest a commercial surveyor to ask about lease matters. As a rural surveyor I advised on agricultural leases, usually cheaper than a solicitor too!

therealcookiemonster · 07/11/2023 10:48

this sounds like a scam. I can't imagine that their arguments would stand before any judge. the agents also had a duty to inform you when you kept emailing them with notice... they purposefully misled you.

AgaMM · 07/11/2023 10:52

How qualified is your lawyer friend, because you could have an argument that the notice requirements have been waived by their radio silence for six months, and any decent lawyer would be able to tell you that.

Also, by changing the locks, they have evicted you from the property so you definitely shouldn’t be paying rent. So let them sue you. Just make sure you have as much evidence as possible of the locks being changed.

penjil · 07/11/2023 11:14

Stop paying the rent on the old place please.

Ariela · 07/11/2023 11:36

Does your business insurance cover any legal matters? Might be worth checking.

gotomomo · 07/11/2023 12:33

Write to a newspaper, the guardian money pages are pretty good with this sort of thing

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 13:21

Check with your solicitor friend but I think the agent's confirmation that notice was received will render the term about tracked delivery obsolete.

The commercial landlord is fairly typical of non-lawyers, reading a contract in black and white and failing to realise how the law actually works. If the landlord had not received the notice at all, then they might be able to rely on this term in the contract. But as they did receive the notice and the agent confirmed it, they will suffer no detriment as a consequence of how you gave notice. They can't now claim that they didn't get the notice because it was received in the wrong way.

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 13:22

AgaMM · 07/11/2023 10:52

How qualified is your lawyer friend, because you could have an argument that the notice requirements have been waived by their radio silence for six months, and any decent lawyer would be able to tell you that.

Also, by changing the locks, they have evicted you from the property so you definitely shouldn’t be paying rent. So let them sue you. Just make sure you have as much evidence as possible of the locks being changed.

Yep, this! But don't wait to be sued. Sue them for the deposit.