My brother won't train his new puppy

[SaltyDragon]

My dbro (lives alone, has no friends and sold his business to retire on proceeds) had to have his dog put down earlier in the year, due to bone cancer. The next day he drove across the country to buy a, same breed, 3 month old puppy.

The new puppy is utterly adorable but, obviously, untrained and very excitable . My dbro adores him, and they go everywhere together. Dbro is very invested in his dogs and they get everything they need, regular grooming and vet appointments.

However, he gave up training his previous dog, as he was very stubborn. He hasn't even bothered with new pup. So new pup is constantly yapping for attention, into everything, demanding treats and leaping onto the table to steal food. He also appears to be intimidated by my tall, bearded son, and growls at him.

My elderly mum wants to go to a restaurant at Christmas, but it has to be dog friendly because dbro refuses to leave new pup at home in case he gets lonely. We have suggested crate training or, at the least, proper table training, so he doesn't attempt to steal food or yap constantly for attention. However, dbro refuses to train him, saying he's only a puppy.

I understand that, and here's where I might be being U, I'm concerned that new pup will be over stimulated by a crowded restaurant and misbehave. I'm also worried that he will continually growl at my son, spoiling his meal out.

The only dog friendly places open on Christmas day, are also the most expensive, and I cannot afford them. My mum has her heart set on Christmas Dinner at a restaurant or pub, but is the worst for dropping food for new pup as she can't resist him.

I want to tell my dbro that it's not suitable to bring new pup to dinner, and he really needs to crate train him, so he can be left safely at home. However, I know how much he loves new pup, and he is still only 7 or 8 months old and needs to be with his owner.

I'm struggling with this as we have regular meals together, which makes my mum and dbro happy, and I should just put up with it for their sake, but I'm worried my anxiety will spoil the day for me, my daughter and my son.

Can anyone, who understands dogs, tell me if I'm being U about this, or if dbro should make an attempt to train new pup to behave better and not growl at ds all the time.

This has disaster written all over it. But the main issue seems to be you can't afford the dog friendly pub meal, so maybe stress that issue first and foremost.

Your DB has to decide what he wants more. Xmas day alone with a puppy or Xmas meal with all his family.

Your mum has to accept that the Xmas meal may have to be separate - you and your DB separately spending time with her. She might not like it, but your brother is forcing your hand.

You have to stand your ground, blame COL and the growling at your son, and say if the dog goes, you won't, but you'll organise to see your mum somewhere you can afford and the dog won't ruin.

I am a dog lover but your DB is making it all about him and the puppy. He's going to make a rod for his own back by not training it, and this is the start of those consequences.

Why don't you say to your brother that if anything happens to him where he cannot look after the puppy temporarily through illness or permanently if he was to die then he is doing the puppy a terrible disservice as no one will want to look after it or if they do they won't be able to because the puppy has not been trained and is already showing signs of aggression and would spend forever in a dogs home or more likely have to be put to sleep.

What he is doing or rather not doing is cruel and he is giving the puppy the worst start in life.

Your mother dropping food on the floor is also going to cause problems for the dog as first of all, the dog doesn't need human food or titbits and she is teaching the dog bad manners which could result in the dog expecting food every meal time and the dog will be confused and even become aggressive if someone says NO!

Yes your brother should train his pup or be more accommodating re venues and sort doggy day care

Yes your mother should be slightly less bloody minded about what SHE wants

but No, there is very little to bugger all that you can do about it

Getting SO tired of the number of people with dogbrain in the UK. And dogs in restaurants, yuck.

Can't he find a kennel type facility for the day?

Your DB is damaging that poor puppy. Like children, dogs learn best when they are young. The saying “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” exists for a reason.

In the wild, a pup would get schooled on behaviour by its mother and siblings, and the dog is relying on your idiot brother to teach it.

I think your brother needs to sit the meal out if he’s not prepared to leave the puppy at home. My son’s got a 4 month old puppy and didn’t want to leave her alone for his 30th birthday meal, or take her to a dog friendly place so we got a takeaway. Puppies are a great age to train, he needs to stop the pup jumping up on tables and train him to lie down if he’s intending on taking him to restaurants regularly. It can be hard to leave a young pup, he would spend the whole time worrying so why doesn’t he just skip the meal and come over lately

Explain that even if you go out for xmas lunch, you will be asked to leave because expensive restaurants welcome WELL BEHAVED dogs, and the puppy isn't.

Explain that for this reason, you and your dc will be having xmas at home, and your mum and brother are welcome to join you but only if the dog is kept under control.

When you get a puppy you’re training it from the minute you collect it and then for every day if it’s life after that. Good dogs are a product of good owners. Your bother shouldn’t have a dog.

He needs to train the puppy to be secure being left now or he will never be able to go anywhere ever!
Unless he plans to take the dog everywhere forever he is being cruel not training now.
It takes weeks, months to train a dog to be secure when leaving alone.
I can see a situation raising where he needs to leave it and the poor dog suffering.
Training is not about obedience, it's about raising a well adjusted dog without behavioral issues.
He needs to understand training is for the benefit of the dog not just the people around it.

Has he said he’s not trying to train him or have you just not seen it? Because although there are amazing people who train their puppies quickly and easily, we’ve attended dog classes from as early as possible, we read up on training andI work with our little man daily, but there’s still times, in particular when in laws come over because he adores them (ADORES!) , that he’ll jump up, try to take food etc. they are serious dog people and I’m sure they think we’re doing nothing with him and they offer us advice etc, not knowing we are trying! He is easygoing as hell and listens well for the most part (we are working on recall though as we seem to be messing this part up!) Also as asked above is there a kennels nearby? Only other thing is you mentioned crate training? Not everyone wants to go that way, Our dog is perfectly happy to just go to bed without needing to be in a crate! Talk to your bro and tell him the growling this is wrong and if it happens to the wrong person they’ll take it to the authorities, hopefully that will make him get on to that(your poor son!) Hope it all works out op

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your help and I'm glad to know that I'm not being unfair.

DB has outright stated that he "can't be bothered to train new pup as the breed (Scotty) is known to be difficult to train as they are very stubborn".

I need to put my big girl pants on and tackle this before it all gets out of hand.

Yes another weird thread about dogs.

Then he shouldn’t have got a scotty! Also that’s rubbish, any dog can be trained some just take more determination or a different style.

Also at 7 months the puppy can absolutely be left alone. Ours was left alone from day dot (for 5-10 mins gradually building up). She comes every where with us but doesn’t make a sound at the dinner table. Just sits at our feet.

Whikst it’s great that he gets really grooming etc the fact he can’t even be bothered to train his dog means he’s a crap owner. The best thing you can do for your dog is set them up for an easy comfortable life. It’s cruel otherwise.

If a dog isn’t trained by 7 or 8 months it will likely never be trained. Its so much easier when they are young! Scotty’s are very trainable if you put a bit of effort in it.
Don’t make any excuse now, you’ll have to live with this for the lifetime of the dog.
I have no problem with dogs in restaurants- as ling as they are trained to a high standard (and ours are - every dog can be trained)

I don’t think you can ask him to leave the dog he loves alone on Christmas Day just because you can’t afford the more expensive restaurant.

Yes he needs to train the puppy, but training takes a long time. With a puppy you need to take the time for the to learn the skill, but also to mature.

teaching a dog to be alone for example (it doesn’t have to be in a crate) takes a while to build up. You don’t just lock the dog up, keep going out for a few hours until it doesn’t care. You build up the duration over time. Depending on timings (duration the fog is to be left for) and the puppy I’m not sure hed even have enough time to train it to be happy to be left for a meal duration yet. A pub Christmas Day lunch is going to be over three hours plus travel time youre looking at a 4 hour outing minimum. -that’s a long time to build up to.

your brother might see training as getting the dog used to spending time in the pub, and travelling places with him so the dog can accompany him out?

What the previous poster said about being asked to leave the restaurant if the dog doesn't behave. Dog friendly is for dogs which are trained and will lie quietly under the table or beside the owner. It's Christmas day and no one will want their special day out spoiled.

Just say that DM, DB and the puppy can have Christmas dinner out and you and your family will have yours at home and see them afterwards. It sounds far too stressful, going out with them, to be enjoyable. Whether he trains his puppy or not is up to him, but his apathy has consequences.

He is training the dog. Every day. you don’t get a choice about small creatures, they learn all the time. Right now the pup is learning to do whatever it takes to get whatever he wants.

Your bro needs to decide what he wants the dog to learn- good habits or bad ones.

Actively training a dog is fun for the dog, stimulating, and a really important bonding activity. Doesn’t he want to bond with his dog? Be able to take the dog places? Suggest he could work for the dog to become a therapy dog, able to visit people in all sorts of places, as pup is such a special lovely dog!. He’ll not manage it but may fancy trying!

Your mum enjoys the lunches and the dogs presence. Does she not mind the bad behaviour? Or is the behaviour not that bad you just don’t like dogs so are looking for an excuse for the dog not to be allowed.

I’m intrigued that an eight month scotty can manage to jump on a table. Has it been drinking redbull?

Poor poor puppy. Positive training techniques are hard work and need lots of repetition but basically like a great game for puppies and reinforce the bound between them and owner. They are never too young and the puppy will make mistakes/be tricky to be around if not used. This could end up with a dead dog......Either through crap recall and a road accident or a bite and euthanasia.
If dB loves the dog he needs to train it. There are excellent books and Facebook pages to help.
Don't go, tell him he's failing the poor puppy and give him this for Xmas

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Training-Behaviour-Solutions-stress-free/dp/B09ZCL5PN9/ref=asc_df_B09ZCL5PN9/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=570480429095&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11074215652239983741&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045631&hvtargid=pla-1721657352677&psc=1&th=1&psc=1&ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=b6f0aa18-d340-486d-a7d0-859f342b9d7b

Not stubborn, just a dog that needs their human to find the appropriate motivator- be it food, play, attention etc.

And while breeds do have traits, dogs are individuals & this one may be very eager to learn compared to his previous dog.

Your brother really needs to put the effort into training, so that the pup becomes a well behaved member of society.