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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Being frustrated with my students

36 replies

loosenmymynd · 06/11/2023 21:14

I'm a BAME lecturer in one of these universities where education has been commodified and students from developing countries are their target market - think South Asia.
I have passion for impactful teaching, but I've been doing some soul-searching and I do not like who I'm becoming around my students.
Teaching is hard, frustrating and almost impossible due to limitations on the part of my students. And I am now seeing myself resenting the very people who you would have called 'my people'.
Some of examples:

  1. Students have in some way (which I can't wrap my head around) have gained admission based on having first class/ second class upper degrees from their home countries and have passed the English Language test, yet they can't communicate - cannot understand simple conversations, can't communicate, can't read or write.
  2. Students don't show up to class as expected. If they did, they are not 'present' - have no pen or notepad/ laptop (well most can't write anyway) and cannot engage in simple subject discussions. A postgraduate lecture often derails from the subject matter to explaining basic English.
Say for example, the topic for the day is Ethical dilemmas in legal cases, we'd end up spending the time just explaining what a dilemma is.
  1. Some don't even know how to log onto a computer.
Yesterday, I was teaching a masters student how to do Ctrl+alt+del.
  1. They turn up late to lectures and meetings (think 1-1.5hrs late) and feel offended if they're told off for this. No willingness to unlearn and learn new ways.
  2. Don't show up to meetings and don't communicate. Don't respond to emails.
If at all, they suggest an alternative time that they would be happy to meet as though all has to be at their convenience. Isn't the primary reason for being in the UK to study?
  1. Do not do assignments or meet deadlines.
  2. Display misogynistic behaviours, for example, some males feel frustrated when been told off by a female lecturer and I can see their rage in the way they shrug their arms in the air or stomp their foot when sat down as though they're about to fly off the handle.
  3. Just always making excuses. Never making effort to pull their weight. File complaint when they don't pass or blame you for not teaching them when they fail.
  4. Expect you to give them a 50% pass mark to get them over even if they've done nothing to deserve it.
10. Can't send a proper email yet they complain that they're not exposed to the industry or doing experiential learning. I'm not confident to take them anywhere is the honest truth.

These examples are 0.1% of what I'm dealing with. But I have come to a place where I'm now resenting most of my students and other than my contractual obligation, I have zero respect for them in the professional sense.
I don't know why. I've lost empathy for them.

YABU Be mad at the systems which have failed these people and our system which is taking advantage of them.
YANBU They are really not making an effort to meet the standards expected of a UK graduate programme.

If anyone has any good advice on how to cope with this (excluding speaking to senior management- they don't care; they just want these people's money), please share.

OP posts:
TwinkleTwinkleTwinkleTwinkle · 06/11/2023 23:10

I used to work in a school that targeted Chinese students. The students had very poor English and were late, would fall asleep in class and so on.

I eventually left but while I was there I was the squeaky wheel. Management just wanted bums on seats but I refused to have them in my class if they weren't pulling their weight.

It's rubbish though, I sympathise.

Floogal · 06/11/2023 23:32

Very interesting thread. Also heard that bribery isn't unheard of as well.

CousinGreg55 · 07/11/2023 08:48

This thread is eye opening. My son has just started his degree, knowing how hard he worked to achieve his A levels it seems unbelievable that he could be on the same course as someone who can't speak English.

JamSandle · 07/11/2023 08:56

It is a shocking state of affairs.

CousinGreg55 · 07/11/2023 13:17

It is shocking, sounds as though they are literally buying their degrees. Scandalous

albapunk · 07/11/2023 13:26

The people you described are often found working in the care sector to support their studies. There are a few excellent people, but the vast majority are absolutely clueless, have no English skills and seem to be unable to actually
hold any information. 6 months down the line it's like working with new starts on their first day, every shift. Many of these are "highly skilled" in their home countries and doing Masters degrees here.

I also have issues with men getting angry at me giving them a telling off, or even simply explaining the role. They do what they like.

The overseas carers who are actually excellent in their role get frustrated by these people and feel it paints their countries in a terrible light, they find it embarrassing.

shivawn · 07/11/2023 13:39

determinedtomakethiswork · 06/11/2023 22:26

I worked with a woman whose husband was at a similar university. He taught computer science at degree level. Virtually all his students were from overseas and were non-English speakers. He said most couldn't even say hello to him never mind discuss anything to do with the course.

He said that they didn't do tutorials or seminars because basically the students couldn't speak English, and this would be so apparent.

In the lectures, he said they had interpreters, so he was stopping and starting talking all the time and it was very frustrating.

There was absolutely immense pressure on him to pass everyone. This was easy enough, because when the assignments were handed in, they were in perfect written English and would get a very high mark. There were no sat exams, and as I said, no tutorials or seminars.

The University was simply robbing those students of an education, and those students were complicit in it because they were buying the assignments online. The guy was told not to worry about it because they wouldn't be staying in Britain to work anyway.

Honestly these replies are shocking. How on earth is this allowed to happen?

RedCoffeeCup · 07/11/2023 13:46

Fordian · 06/11/2023 22:01

My DS had his uni graduation recently. B.Sc. Middle of the road Uni (Bournemouth). Solid enough subject. Worked hard, 1:1, now employed in a proper post grad job.

But, at his graduation, also graduating there were all the 'Masters' students doing 'Cyber security'; 50 of them. All 100% Nigerian. (With a massive cheer -squad of family and friends 😂).

How is this? What is going on?

I gather the ability to import your entire family, as a Masters STUDENT, is a draw.

But isn't anyone going 🤔 about this 'hugely successful' cohort?

I was NHS. I left recently because of how unsafe it was becoming. Band 6 CT 'radiographers' with 'post graduate certificates' (sure) in CT, from third world countries, who couldn't identify basic, first year students' requirement anatomical structures on scans.

Our public institutions, unis and hospitals, are apparently okay with this subterfuge.

Most people don't have a clue about this.

This is changing - from Jan 2024 students will no longer be allowed to bring dependents with them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65683046.amp

University students in seminar room

Foreign students face curbs on UK visas for family - BBC News

The announcement comes days before official statistics are expected to show record migration levels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65683046.amp

cyclamenqueen · 07/11/2023 14:01

It’s allowed to happen because without these overseas fees many universities would quite frankly be broke .

ludocris · 07/11/2023 14:13

It's the government that has commodified education, not universities.

Whichwhatnow · 07/11/2023 14:18

Finding it interesting (terrifying??) hearing these posts about the NHS. I was in hospital with sepsis a few months back and while most of the staff were lovely despite obviously being so busy, the night shift nurses in particular had a couple who just didn't seem to communicate... one changed my leg dressing, and I told her she was doing it far too tight. She just shook her head silently at me and carried on. I had to have it removed the next morning after limping to reception in absolute agony. I wasn't sure at the time whether it was just a rushed, harried nurse making a mistake or if she actually couldn't speak English well enough to understand me.

If it really was the latter then surely that's just putting more pressure on the NHS and other nurses??

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