In thinking people can't debate any more

[naughtynovie]

So bloody pissed off with those who assume that because you present the Devil's Advocate view in conversational debate that you absolutely and morally believe it. Whatever happened to the exploration of a topic - of seeing multiple sides to consider and then move towards or back away from? Sick to death of 'I can't believe you said that ...'. Yes, I did. It doesn't mean I morally and ethically stand by it. It means I want a nuanced appreciation of argument that considers all sides and critically weighs up the often imperfect options. I don't want black and white simplicity. I want greyness - that space to think and learn and argue and then even potentially conclude we have an imperfect answer but it's the best available at the moment. Perhaps it's me aging but I gave increasingly less time for people who respond with Daily Mail knee jerk responses. I think it fuels racism, bigotry and xenophobia.

Yanbu I think people increasingly think emotion is a proxy for argument and it isn’t really.

People are often intolerant of others with a different view. Sometimes a debate is framed as I want to win this (typically some men of a certain character, and some women too) whereas I see it much more about learning, seeing the holes in your own point of view, seeing things from a new perspective. Sadly others see a debate as an opportunity for a pile on :(

It discourages people with alternate views from the majority from contributing I think, so shuts down proper debate.

Debating societies are always seen as a thing from public school, I wonder what the rationale for that is? Winning with a convincing argument or appreciation of nuance and thinking on the spot as ideas come up/change.

Do you think debating gets much of a foothold in state schools? Never heard DS say anything about it. It's a good thing for teens to be able to practise and also think about what debate is really for.

“How do I know what I think until I see what I say?”
― E.M. Forster

Likewise, Joan Didion, on writing (as we do in MN)

'I write entirely to find out what I'm thinking, what I'm looking at, what I see and what it means.'

I think it's a real shame that debate is not foregrounded as much in state schools. Well, to be fair, I think Religious Studies does that - perhaps philosophy ... when ethics is discussed. But what needs to be done on top of this is for it to be taught that standing outside one's own personal views is a good thing - and might even change those views. That 'argument in and of itself is instrumental in progressing different perspectives. The method is the important thing; not necessary what's said.

In my experiences, engaging in debates with members of the public introduces a unique set of challenges. Particularly when discussing various topics, there's often a mix of enthusiasm and a lack of comprehensive understanding of the facts or context surrounding the issues at hand. It's not uncommon to encounter individuals who may not be fully versed in the intricacies of the subjects we're debating. While this can be frustrating at times, I see it as an opportunity for a different kind of dialogue one that involves not just presenting arguments but also educating and fostering a shared understanding, that's as long as they are willing to listen and learn rather than just your wrong im right etc.