We are not set up for electric vehicles in this country

[Pollyannaatemyjelly]

We have an electric vehicle. We tend not to do too many long journeys but today it was inevitable. We have visit a very popular destination via major motorways but there is not one fast charger available on our route. I've just stopped on the M5 on what is supposed to be a dual charger (so more than one vehicle can charge) but it's not working. I've had to wait 20 minutes for the vehicle next to me to charge before I can even begin to charge mine. There is no chance this county can become all electric when the infrastructure is so poor.

We don't want to spend x minutes (or hours) waiting to get onto a charging point and then wait another 45 minutes for the actual charging to happen.

I've never waited for a changing point at a service station (I have at a little hotel that only had 1 charger, but if I hadn't been staying there anyway I could easily have gone to another nearby one instead). Why do you think it would take hours? And chargers are getting faster all the time - 20 mins is usually as much as I need.

@Bingsbongs - we live in the alps. It’s full on hard core winter driving, extreme hills. Never felt safer. Most local services like postman, buses are all electric now also

And petrol drivers who say they want to do electric but the market isn't yet reflecting their needs but think it will in a year or too.

We took a very long look at it.

The efficiency we are getting with my petrol is really really good and I try and walk as much as possible anyway.

We are still weighing up what to do with DHs car which will need replacing in a year or two. We are closely following what's about to be launched. He has a Dacia at the moment, and the new electrics look really promising. But that will still be more than twice what he paid for his current car. That's a big deal.

In the meantime we've got the solar panels. So it IS part of our longer term plan to go electric but the timing, price point and models available need to be right before we are prepared to make that investment.

He has a Dacia at the moment, and the new electrics look really promising. But that will still be more than twice what he paid for his current car. That's a big deal.

And that's key, isn't it? It all comes down to money.

If you have your own driveway/land, somewhere to install a charger and enough money to be able to afford an electric vehicle that suits your lifestyle, I'm sure they're fantastic.

But there are still millions of people who aren't in that position and won't be for quite some time to come.

We have a KIA and a Dacia. They cost just over £21k together...

EXACTLY my point.

I think that a 17k model will start to suck people in and create a nearly new band around the 12 to 15k mark. At which point it starts to change the market overall somewhat. Start to...

But even then it will take time as I suspect the wait time on those will be a good six months minimum for the first couple of years. We got a first wave Dacia - we were on the ball and got one early. A few months later you couldnt get one for love nor money due to the waiting list as they just couldn't match demand. My suspicion is we will see something similar.

The Dacia will also force other companies to start to drop the bottom end of the market price in time too. Particularly on the nearly new market.

You have to remember what the median wage is in this country. That gives a lot of reflection on that 17k price tag.

The infrastructure will follow cos it's all about demand.

What's interesting in the rest of Europe is how governments have offered incentives to buyers to bring the initial outlay costs down (and to build the market structure on that nearly new and second hand market...)

Well yes i live in mainland Europe. There’s a €6k ev discount, so a €17k costs €11k. You can pay in 5 year monthly instalments which is around €185 a month. The cost of insurance/ aa equivalent is included in purchase for those 5 years. For a more expensive ev it’s the same, and you can opt to pay a deposit to reduce monthly repayment. As a company our old 17 year old car could only be third party insured here and the insurance alone was around €150 a month.

And probably because when they catch fire, they REALLY catch fire!!

Presumably you owned the corsa at the end of the HP contract. With a lease, you're just "renting" it so you have nothing to show for it at the end of the lease term. You're basically just financing it's depreciation over the 3 year lease term.

So how much are you and other taxpayers willing to pay in extra tax to subsidise the massive improvement in public transport that's going to be needed?

No, thought not!

Well, that's to be expected. Those for whom electric cars can work, i.e. charge at home, can afford one, etc., will buy them. Those for whom it won't work, i.e. not charging at home, too expensive to buy, etc., won't buy them.

Why would you think it would be any other way?

It's exactly what the government want. "Nudge" all the people for whom they're feasible to buy one. Get as many EV's on the road as possible. Then let everyone else carry on using ICE cars for another couple of decades, by which time, no doubt a more convenient form of fuel will be available to replace petrol/diesel, i.e. hydrogen or some other chemical.

There wont be an improvement, it will be tough, government won't care as long as they meet their targets, only recently they were going to jail people for not fitting heat pumps. They have their targets and if life gets worse then tough.

@Badbadbunny - no I will own it. I paid a deposit, and it’s a lease to own scheme here. In 3.5 years I will own. I can then decided to keep or choose to sell in secondhand market.

Does anyone know how much is it to replace a battery when they fail? Parts and Labour?

This will be important on the second hand market for people buying 10 year old plus cars. I think Kia have a ten year battery warranty. Will battery’s fail at the 12 year mark? If so will more cars end up being scrapped earlier as uneconomical to repair?

We don't have those discounts available for normal family electric cars in the UK. They were discontinued last year.

So, a 26k car (the cheapest family electric vehicle on the market) is still 26k.

Of course you can get them on finance if you can afford the deposit, and the monthly payments, and you have a sufficient income/credit score to get approved for finance in the first place.

Or you could get a cheap second hand car for a couple of k outright and run it into the ground. Insurance is cheap and all you need to pay is fuel, MOT and put some aside for things like new tyres.

It's a no-brainer for most people, because they just cannot afford to even think about an electric car.

A couple of people have questioned my comment about the weight of electric cars and multi-story car parks. If you Google, there is loads of info as well as reports of car park collapses.

Here are a couple of credible source articles for starters.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/05/electric-cars-too-heavy-old-multi-storey-car-parks/

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11956197/Ageing-multi-storey-car-parks-collapse-weight-heavier-electric-vehicles.html

www.topgear.com/car-news/suvs/uk-car-parks-are-apparently-danger-collapsing-because-new-cars-are-so-heavy

OK, so you paid a pretty hefty deposit up front then. The bigger the deposit, the smaller the monthly repayment.

Slightly Jaded that's three articles about the same 'could be a problem' report by those with a vested interest. Anything else?

It takes a few minutes to fill with petrol. Charging takes 30 minutes at least if not a lot more.

2 cars in front of you at a petrol pump is a minor irritation (if that). Two cars in front waiting for the charger is entirely different.

overall we need better improvements

We’ve had an EV for a year now, never had to wait for a charger and it takes 15 mins to charge from 10>80ish%. I did a lot of research into the infrastructure and decided to get a Tesla - very happy with this decision as the charging infrastructure is a long way ahead of others. No need to use any apps, just drive up and plug the car in.
We have had to rush back to the car at service stations to avoid the idle charges on many occasions!
We do also have a charge point at home, so can start every journey at full range.

I’m thinking of buying an electric so this thread is interesting. I tend to buy cars that are 1-3 years old and then keep them for a good few years and then I pass them to a relative (rather than trade in). I do give it to my relative (so I don’t worry about selling them something shoddy) but I’d like them to get a few years from it. They could not afford 5k plus for a new battery for a car. I need to take this into consideration when I buy. We both have driveway/garage so charging isn’t an issue.

I had never heard of the car park issue. I found a structural engineer website where you could purchase for £60 a guide for engineers on car park issues. I found the link below. I am not in the industry so not sure how credible the new civil engineer website is.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/rise-in-evs-could-have-implications-for-car-park-structures-04-04-2023/

Once you leave my city there isn’t an EV charger for 300km. There is nothing in between except trees and water. With the heater on full blast when it’s -20 and below, I wouldn’t trust the range of any battery to get me there.

We went to a major tourist destination earlier this week in half term so mega busy - drove from the NE to near London in our electric car for the 3 day trip
Planned our route - did fast charge on way down and one on way back and one overnight in council car park near hotel.
Had to wait 5mins for charger on the way down but charge was finished by the time we'd had a coffee in way back no wait, charged whilst we had some quick food.
Planned our route using zap map (M1 services are shit for fast chargers but with a very short detour we found available ones)
We had some nerves doing it because we had a car full of crotchety kids but actually it was fine.
Destination didn't have chargers but they were being fitted whilst we were there.
I think the infrastructure does need to get better but it is fairly rapidly - had an electric car for 6years now and the change in that time has been massive. Main grip is how many chargers aren't working - maintenance needs to be addressed

Range is getting better too which means less charging. However we've never run short or even close.

I don't think electric cars are the whole solution but they are a good step in the right direction.

That's the same one and only car park report - again!

The message being that if you have a shit and old multistorey car park, you should maintain the structure. Even the rise of the steroid-pumped SUV hasn't yet significantly breached loading requirements even for car parks built long ago, but that those limits now have less of a margin of error.