Page 2 | To not understand why Zara Aleena’s killer had his sentence reduced

Dontfencemein · 2023-11-03T21:23:10+00:00

Zara Aleena’s murderer has had his sentence reduced. Why? I feel desperately sad for her and her family. And for the woman and children killed at Killamarsh. Violent sexual predators hiding in plain sight. Not sure what my AIBU is really. I don’t understand why there’s not more outrage about these men who were known to be dangerous and went on to do even more awful things to women and children.

MRSMTO · 04/11/2023 08:29

So, if they knock us out quickly it doesn't matter as much? Got it.

SandyWaves · 04/11/2023 08:34

God bless her.

It was a horrific attack. Poor lady just walking home from a night out. A clear message from the Court..whatever happens to your body once made unconscious shouldn't worry the victim.

This doesn't make sense.

Lougle · 04/11/2023 08:34

MRSMTO · 04/11/2023 08:29

So, if they knock us out quickly it doesn't matter as much? Got it.

No, but torturing a victim has to have a higher tariff than the same crime without the element of torture.

As @Neriah has said, it isn't a sentence reduction. No matter when (if) he is released, the offender will be on license for the rest of his life. If he breaks the conditions of his license (such as having a relationship without telling the probation service) or commits another crime, he will be returned to prison.

Loubelle70 · 04/11/2023 08:40

Hang on!! Possible trigger post

So because she was unconscious quickly and didnt feel anything after, the perpetrator has had his sentence reduced?!!!! So, what about necrophilia then? That's abusing the body after? And thats recognised as such and illegal?. He still inflicted violence on her afterwards. No different

headhurtstoomuch · 04/11/2023 08:48

MrsCuthbertson · 04/11/2023 07:51

@MrsCuthbertson- why on earth are you so angry? White privilege is a real thing

I'm not in the least bit angry. Accusations are being made about the judiciary and I'm asking what that's based on.

I'm not a lawyer and from the way you write I doubt you are either but we are both allowed to have an opinion without being shouted down

Neither of us are lawyers but the judges who made the decision are and therefore have a greater knowledge of sentencing than we do.

And I'm not shouting you down, you're making accusations of racism and I'm asking what you're basing them on.

Clearly nothing.

Your post screams white privilege. You are angry and I think you need to ask yourself why. Do you think people pull the race card too often?

Ultimately I don't want to derail a thread about something so heartbreaking.

As you were. 🙏🏿

MrsCuthbertson · 04/11/2023 08:57

Your post screams white privilege. You are angry and I think you need to ask yourself why. Do you think people pull the race card too often?

You're making a fool of yourself now.

And you still haven't provided any evidence of racism because there isn't any.

Carry on being a keyboard warrior.

daughtersdayout · 04/11/2023 08:57

headhurtstoomuch · 04/11/2023 08:48

Your post screams white privilege. You are angry and I think you need to ask yourself why. Do you think people pull the race card too often?

Ultimately I don't want to derail a thread about something so heartbreaking.

As you were. 🙏🏿

Show quote history

@headhurtstoomuch I wholeheartedly agree with you

LadyEloise1 · 04/11/2023 09:02

Doingmybest12 · 04/11/2023 07:24

What a horrific crime and what a horrible signal to the family and community that he would seek to have his sentence reduced in this way. And how awful the reasoning about how the judge came to their decision.

💯👏🏻

MrsCuthbertson · 04/11/2023 09:03

So maybe @daughtersdayout can explain how the judges were racist ...

headhurtstoomuch · 04/11/2023 09:06

MrsCuthbertson · 04/11/2023 08:57

Your post screams white privilege. You are angry and I think you need to ask yourself why. Do you think people pull the race card too often?

You're making a fool of yourself now.

And you still haven't provided any evidence of racism because there isn't any.

Carry on being a keyboard warrior.

Seriously what is the matter with you? Calm down and get some support for your misplaced anger.

I won't respond to your rants after this.

Never been called a keyboard warrior before - I'm so proud 😊

PastorCarrBonarra · 04/11/2023 09:06

My head says that the decision was right.

My heart says that it’s egregious.

That’s why we have police officers, lawyers, judges. So that heart doesn’t rule head. Fairness prevails.

I am glad that he will likely die in prison and that he’s probably going to be - how to put this - rather unpopular with the other inmates. I know that this is not a mature response but I make no apologies for it.

MrsFinkelstein · 04/11/2023 09:08

Loubelle70 · 04/11/2023 08:40

Hang on!! Possible trigger post

So because she was unconscious quickly and didnt feel anything after, the perpetrator has had his sentence reduced?!!!! So, what about necrophilia then? That's abusing the body after? And thats recognised as such and illegal?. He still inflicted violence on her afterwards. No different

No. He hasn't had his sentence reduced.
He still has a life sentence.
He can just apply to be considered for parole 5yrs earlier.

similarminimer · 04/11/2023 09:21

The legal point is that it is worse to keep someone alive and torture them for days before murdering them, than it is to kill them quickly. If you want a longer minimum tarrif for the former then you need a shorter one for the latter. The appeal found that the initial judge had incorrectly applied the guidelines.

Flickersy · 04/11/2023 09:22

There has been no reduction in sentence. He is still, as he was before, on a life sentence and rightly so.

The minimum term he must serve of that sentence in prison before he can apply for parole has been reduced from 38 to 33 years. It doesn't mean he'll be released after 33 years.

A life sentence is always for life. A sentence does not have to be served entirely in prison. There is a common misconception that if someone's not in prison they're not serving their sentence, which is wrong.

JMSA · 04/11/2023 09:35

RunningFromInsanity · 03/11/2023 21:25

I read somewhere part of the judges reasoning was that because she fell unconscious quickly, she wasn’t subjected to a high level of suffering, and therefore the sentence shouldn’t have been that high, so she reduced it.

WTF

Oh, well that's alright then.

Fuck me, the bar is set low, isn't it?

MrsCuthbertson · 04/11/2023 09:37

Calm down and get some support for your misplaced anger. I won't respond to your rants after this

I'm not in the least bit angry with you. Nor am I ranting - I'm asking you a question which you are incapable of answering.

Never been called a keyboard warrior before - I'm so proud

It's not a compliment. It's someone who sits on their backside spouting nonsense. You accusing me of white privilege (oh the irony!) and the judges of racism without being able to substantiate either is an example of this.

And nothing to be proud of.

barbieofswanlake · 04/11/2023 09:49

The sentencing guidelines are there for a reason. Cases like this are really difficult because no sentence is long enough, or will ever truly reflect the seriousness of what he has done.

But we could not have a judicial system where judges simply sentence according to subjective assessment. They must use the categories within the guidelines, that is the only way for a fair and just system.

For the benefit of the previous de-rail, it also reduces the likelihood of personal bias meaning sentencing is influenced by things like race, sexual orientation etc

Original poster

Dontfencemein · 04/11/2023 10:04

I can see the legal arguments but it’s still perverse. Her last moments were filled with fear and pain. And he’s used how much taxpayers’ money proving a point? The family is right, we should forget him and honour her. But as PPs have said, it’s sends out a dreadful message to men who would harm women.

OP posts:

Sartre · 04/11/2023 10:08

He’ll only die in prison if he dies young or is refused parole once his min tariff expires. He’s 30 so he’ll be 63 when considered for parole. Average life expectancy for men is 79 now so he could have almost 20 years when released.

The tariff shouldn’t have been reduced, I have no doubt it gave the sick cunt a kick.

Riverlee · 04/11/2023 10:23

Nagado · 04/11/2023 07:04

There was another thread about this that linked to the judgement. If you decide to read it, be warned that it contains a very graphic description of what Zara was subjected to, which could be very triggering.

I’m massively over simplifying it but part of it was that the original judge found that him taking her mobile phone from her was in order to prevent her from calling for help and that he had caused Zara to suffer fear before her murder (there’s a legal term for it, but it’s gone out of my head). So the original judge gave him extra time for that, before knocking off the five years credit that he got for pleading guilty.

The grounds of appeal were that the phone was just one of several items that he’d taken from her, so it was wrong to say he’d taken it for that reason, and in order to give extra time for causing her fear, it had to be that the level of fear went above and beyond the fear that any victim would experience while they were being raped and murdered and that, because she’d been unconscious for some time, it couldn’t be said that she had suffered as much as she would’ve if she’d been conscious during the attack. They accepted that 30+ years was reasonable but 38 years was too much. And the Appeal Court agreed.

Thank you for explaining to this.

Flickersy · 04/11/2023 11:05

Dontfencemein · 04/11/2023 10:04

I can see the legal arguments but it’s still perverse. Her last moments were filled with fear and pain. And he’s used how much taxpayers’ money proving a point? The family is right, we should forget him and honour her. But as PPs have said, it’s sends out a dreadful message to men who would harm women.

It's not just point-scoring. No-one, even the vilest most evil creature on earth, should be unjustly treated by the justice system. It is vital that the law is applied correctly and fairly.

It is never a waste of taxpayers money to ensure that happens.

It's only easy to agree with the above when you're dealing with someone likeable. Even if someone is a fucking awful person though, the above MUST still apply otherwise we may as well do away with the justice system entirely.

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 04/11/2023 12:09

I don’t see how a 38 year minimum tariff was treating him unfairly though. I don’t see how the fact she was unconscious makes it any less abhorrent (in fact I think there’s an argument that it could be more abhorrent).

I feel so uncomfortable with this judgement and I’m usually not a ‘throw away the key’ kind of person but it was horribly pre-meditated, had a violent sexual motive, he had been in prison before and was clearly a waste of oxygen. I hope he dies in prison (as in, I hope he actually serves his life sentence) and is never released.

RIP Zara. You and your loved ones deserved so much better. 💐

TheShellBeach · 04/11/2023 12:12

LemonLimeDivine · 04/11/2023 07:14

It’s utterly appalling. That poor girl, and her family.

People like him deserve the death sentence.

This country hasn't got capital punishment though.

Viewfrommyhouse · 04/11/2023 12:13

Misogyny. HTH.

HermioneWeasley · 04/11/2023 12:15

He should be executed