To tell you that factual recall wont get you very far in your GCSEs and ask you what you think schools should be teaching that they are not

[stripybluesocks]

I keep reading about how schools need to adapt the curriculum to modern life and stop making children simply learn facts they can look up anyway. And read posters bewailing the fact that children should be learning how to analyse and evaluate more, as it is more useful in modern society.

A lot of parents don't seem to realise that factual recall is a very low level skill that won't get you very far in GCSEs at all - probably a few 3s and 4s, maybe the odd 5 if you are very very lucky.

Higher level questions require planning, application, analysis, evaluation and all the skills parents seem to think schools are ignoring. All this is taught from primary onwards. Many exam questions contain stacks of data that students are required to manipulate in many ways.

But yes, some factual recall is also required - students need to know the basics and understand the main concepts, or they wont be able to look up anything, because they wont know where to start, or what to believe!

I keep hearing suggestions about what schools should be teaching, but really, they are not very practical or useful suggestions- still keen to hear them, but dont be offended if I disagree with you

I think lots of things people think schools should teach are either easy to find out about and/or more appropriate to be learnt at home. Also, YouTube is great for practical things.

Also, I know a shed load about various historical events (the blimmin’ Tudors 🙄) which I was not taught at school (I’m forrin). This is from reading and television documentaries.

If people want to learn things, or need to, they will. If they want to think about things and work out why a thing happens (or happened in the past) they also will. Schools cannot be held responsible for people’s lack of curiosity!

Add:

Applied financial knowledge/skills, e.g., banking, saving, loans/mortgages etc.
Basic practical and domestic skills, e.g., hand tools, ironing, laundry etc.
Exercise, e.g., walking, biking, skateboarding, yoga, etc. instead of team sports.

I know some will say 'but they should do these at home', and of course a lot of parents do encourage these things. But many do not, for a range of reasons.

We also need to change the curriculum so that (say) only about 50% is set nationally, and leave the rest for local teachers to decide.

Scrap league tables, too. Encourages unimaginative teaching, drives unfairness and inequality (e.g. house prices). Bring back local inspectors, not Ofsted.

I've thought schools 'taught' pupils wrong for ages, including when I was there myself. It's too structured, too rigid, too.. 'we'll learn this today because it's on the exam'. Classes like cooking/sewing/computing, all of which are necessary in life, are pushed to a couple of hours every other week, and then alternate each term. Finance classes or household management are non existent, bar perhaps a PSHE lesson every term, probably crammed into 20 minutes during a registration period.

Yes, everyone needs basic English, maths and science. But unless you're wanting to follow certain career pathways, the level of detail even at GCSE level isn't necessary for most people.

Schooling up until the age of about 14 should be about life. Learning to live successfully. Learning to interview well. Manage money. Look after a house. Mend things. Basic plumbing/electrics. Gardening.

From Y10 onwards it should be more career driven, with deeper learning for those wanting to pursue academia. Not everyone should be pushed through university. Bring back training on the job, widen apprenticeships. Give kids a taste of life rather than just teaching them how to write facts on paper.

I can't remember much at all from my GCSEs, but I can remember the ONE lesson we had on finance management because I used it.

@Hibernatalie I dont think school can just do their own thing. Im well aware that the government sets education policy. But asking what people think schools should do if they arent happy, is what political parties should be responding to or at least explaining why parents are woring and their suggestion is better.

What if i look at all the parties and think none of them do what I want.

I went to the hustings at our last election. I asked a question about SEND reform at thought all 3 parties attending gave a crap answer that wouldnt support SEND pupils.

so 23 science equations, that is basically 1 page....... your DD is being asked to learn 1 page of by heart - not a mammoth feat of memory - and just knowing that won't get her very far on its own, she will need to understand and apply them

yes, that is true of GCSEs, but there are other qualifications better suited to less academic students, applied qualifications, etc schools should be making these available too, although of course they require staffing and space that might not be available in all schools

well, healthy cooking and eating is emphasised both in food tech and in science -

managing money - this has been shown to be best tackled through numeracy and maths skills, rather than by trying to teach directly about money, as it is largely irrelevant to teens, and they do not retain the information until it is relevant, whereas maths skills are used and retained

fixing things around the house? what things?

business management etc, is in business gcses and vocational qualifications

meditation and relaxation - hmm, extremely unpopular - the biggest bone of contention in my current school in recent years. Students and parents get very angry about time wasted on this - and I see their point, and think there is far too much of this sort of woo in schools - lets face it, no one exercise is going to be helpful to more than around 20-25% of the population, so for every 1 child who finds a session helpful, 3 or 4 students get wound up and upset. Maybe ok if it was voluntary at lunch time, providing you could find someone to staff it, but I think the decision has been taken to drop it from compulsory lesson times now

Self defence - maybe as an extra curricular activity if you can find someone to staff it... there is self defence advice from assemblies run by the police in most schools

History isn't white centred, most schools are far more likely to teach native American history or Chinese history than European history at GCSE, or themed history, like medicine, or science, which is also not white centred

More sport? ideally - yes, but when? There is plenty after school, would you make sport before or after school compulsory? I believe it is in some areas of Scotland

Conversations around porn, consent, healthy relationships - believe me, we never stop having these conversations.....

yes, you are right, but I am responding to the many posts I see from parents who don't really seem to understand this

because some basic memory is indeed an indicator of a basic level of intelligence

unfortunately rewiring a plug is still taught. I say unfortunately because I know of at least one child killed by getting over confident with this - I personally think this should be removed from the specification

but we also have city techs, for vocational learning in the UK

@stripybluesocks oh I didn't know this! We didn't learn that at school. In that case I can understand why it shouldn't.

teaching about finances in schools never works, because it is irrelevant to teens, and they don't retain the information until it is relevant, this has been shown over and over again. They way to improve understanding of finance is to provide good numeracy and mathematical skills, which are used straight away, and later transferable to financial decision making.

School sport has to be affordable, biking happens when children bring in their own bikes but schools don't have any. Yoga certainly happens in schools, again, a bit of a bone of contention because lots of parents and children don't like it. walking - many days of it in DofE, which is compulsory in year 9 in many schools

Hand tools are used and taught in schools, ironing and laundry, hardly need lessons, I don't think!

I agree abolish ofsted!

@stripybluesocks it may boggle your mind, but for my science A levels, I didn't have to learn any equations off by heart (not in the UK). We were allowed to use a formulary. We had open book exams. Because doing well was all about understanding, reasoning and application, not rote learning. Rote learning has its place, especially in MFL where having good vocab and grammar at your disposal matters, and you need the fundamentals to be solid in maths, but learning scientific equations off by heart is not a good example of rote learning used wisely.

I wish the students that had no chance of passing their English and Maths GCSE's for whatever reason could choose to do functional English and Maths. So they could come out of the exams feeling they had achieved something rather than failed everything.

Agree with this

"The curriculum is designed by politicians who think that rote learning is the ideal."

That is absolutely not the case.
GCSEs require, very deliberately, evidence of the application of skills of enquiry. Recall of the (vast amount of) information is necessary but not sufficient. This causes huge problems for swathes of neurodivergent learners who excel at recall and retention but struggle with the executive functioning skills required for higher order thinking (planning, organising information, disregarding irrelevant information, etc).

This is Particularly problematic because these same skills of recall and memorisation usually lead to accelerated progress early in childhood with reading, spelling and numeracy and therefore a set of constructs about how "bright" a child is. Which then leads to confusion, bewilderment, disappointment, anxiety and school based trauma when the child, their family and their teachers don't understand why a formerly stellar student is slipping down the class, writing practically nothing, and showing "school refusal". It's all in the expectations of a curriculum designed for neurotypical brains.

I'd agree that some basic memory shows a part of intelligence, but it isn't all intelligence is.

Some children will have great memory and be able to rattle off various equations and facts, but not be able to actually evaluate the information or solve said equations.

Some children won't have great memory and won't be able to remember all the equations, but if they are able to see the equation they need, they can solve it, or if they have the information they can evaluate it.

Of course it would be better to be able to do both!

However, it seems like memory is prioritised.

If child A has a fantastic memory but isn't great on actually solving equations or writing evaluations, then at least they can have a go at it or get some minimal marks for actually knowing the science equations or whatever.

Child B, who doesn't have that memory but would be able to solve and evaluate if they had the information, can't have a go at it at all, they won't be able to get minimal marks, because they can't show that they can work out the equation if they can't remember it by heart, for example. They essentially become blocked from the exam in a way that Child A doesn't.

As I said, both is optimal, but I do think it's unfair that someone who could memorise the equations but not solve then is somehow seen as better than someone who can't memorise the equations but could actually solve them if they were written down.

Fgs this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read.

My son has hardly any memory and of course it matters. If you are not going to school to remember and absorb what you learn then what on earth is it for?

This is why coursework was a fantastic component to GCSEs. Maybe you can't remember 30 literary quotations, but here's an essay question you need to write about X novel or comparing X novel with X play, or 2 poems, or whatever, here is a copy of the play and the poem, sit in the lesson and write! It at least allows those children who can't recall loads of information across 9 subjects to have a fair stab at showing their evaluation, planning, and writing skills etc.

My son has hardly any memory and of course it matters. If you are not going to school to remember and absorb what you learn then what on earth is it for?

Did I say it didn't matter? No, I simply said memory isn't all intelligence is! This is why coursework elements were excellent ways for showing other types of intelligence without needing strong recall in an exam condition.

Yes, this should be available, it is in some schools

well, no they don't because many questions contain all the relevant information needed, so you can answer them without any recall at all, although of course, without basic levels of recall, you are still not going to score very highly

hand tools, ironing, laundry etc.

I agree with your point about learning practical skill but if my kid went to school and learnt about how to sort laundry and do the ironing I would not be best pleased!

It is ridiculous that English literature is a compulsory GCSE but other more important subjects like history, first aid, and law are not. Teenagers do not need to be able to analyse Thomas Hardy and Shakespeare. It’s nice to be able to do so but it is not important.

I would make first aid compulsory, and also law. Most people do not know the basic laws, things like definitions of the most common crimes, their rights if they are arrested, how that is different from if the police randomly request them to get out of their car, or if a security guard demands access to their bag. What a citizen’s arrest is, how our constitution works, how laws are made. Road traffic laws. Doesn’t need to be a full GCSE but should at least have the basics taught.

Maybe also basic geography.

I would also add survival skills. One day Britain will be at war again, it’s depressing but historically likely. When it is, will our children or their children know how to light a fire and cook food on it, how to sterilise water, how to work out which direction is north, how to avoid hypothermia?

Maths shoiod be far more practical. More mental maths so everyone has the basics and can read accounts, less obscure crap no one ever uses.