to tell you most highly intelligent female animals have a menopause, humans, chimps, large dolphins, some elephants...

allsfairin · 2023-10-31T14:36:26+00:00

With elephants and smaller dolphins it's functional rather than physiological, but with highly intelligent animals with an infancy stages that lasts many years, and infants that need years of nurturing and education, this is provided by post menopausal females. All these animals have females who are fertile for the first half of their adult life, and non fertile for the second half, all including traditionally humans, are available for the education and cultural conditioning of their grandchildren, while parents are hunting and providing. As for the males, they all have shorter life spans, some live less than half the time of females The menopause is not a problem that needs solving! It is an amazing evolutionary adaptations to protect the survival of the species, and works very well in intelligent species, and has worked in humans for at least half a million years before modern times. Sure, if someone has a medical problem related to menopause, or at the same time as the menopause, there are treatments available, but I do feel that the current trend for seeing it as a medical problem is misguided, and quite sad

sollenwir · 31/10/2023 14:38

Menopause itself isn't a medical 'problem', however the symptoms of the various parts of it can vary immensely among women and so for anyone who is suffering mentally, physically or both then my one piece of advice is - seek support and help!

Queucumber · 31/10/2023 14:38

Female elephants don’t have to live with non related adult males.

EspressoMacchiato · 31/10/2023 14:39

Female mammals, other than humans, eat a species appropriate diet.

I bet if female elephants ate the way human women did, menopause would be a problem for them too.

VickyEadieofThigh · 31/10/2023 14:40

OP, have you reached menopause age yet?

Original poster

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:42

sollenwir · 31/10/2023 14:38

Menopause itself isn't a medical 'problem', however the symptoms of the various parts of it can vary immensely among women and so for anyone who is suffering mentally, physically or both then my one piece of advice is - seek support and help!

exactly

OP posts:

Almostwelsh · 31/10/2023 14:43

Treatments are for unpleasant symptoms of the menopause. They don't stop menopause and make you fertile again.

Nothing on the market at present 'solves' menopause.

And nature can be brutal. Nature doesn't care whether you feel dreadful and you're going to die of a broken hip at 70. All that matters is the number of surviving offspring you have. Yes creatures with a menopause may raise more offspring than creatures who don't, but menopause can still make you suffer.

Original poster

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:43

Queucumber · 31/10/2023 14:38

Female elephants don’t have to live with non related adult males.

yes they do - hence why I said it is "functional" in elephants

OP posts:

gamerchick · 31/10/2023 14:44

Fab, you go forth and embrace all the feeling shit and the rest of us will deal with ours as we see fit.

Original poster

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:44

EspressoMacchiato · 31/10/2023 14:39

Female mammals, other than humans, eat a species appropriate diet.

I bet if female elephants ate the way human women did, menopause would be a problem for them too.

you could well have hit the crux of the issue there! Not for everyone, but for some women who suffer from bad health in midlife, it may very well be diet related

OP posts:

Dwappy · 31/10/2023 14:45

In the wild I think most female chimps (and other great apes) will die before they reach menopause. Its more common to be seen in captive chimps.
It is a thing yes but it's quite uncommon in the wild.
Orangutans have also been seen to have a menopause. And they are very solitary creatures so will not be helping raise any babies after it.
For any of the great apes I'm pretty sure it's not the "second half of their life" though even in captivity. If they live long enough it may be a few years maximum.

Delatron · 31/10/2023 14:46

I don’t think it’s working well for many women to be honest. Some sail through - yes. Others find the years leading up to menopause a massive struggle - huge anxiety, rage, insomnia, fatigue, achy joints, hot flushes and that’s only the half of it..

You don’t sound like you know much about menopause OP. Did you know it’s actually only one day? That perimenopause can last for up to 10 years?

Not everyone wants or needs to ‘medicalise’ it but thank goodness times are changing and the women that need help can get it more readily these days.

feralunderclass · 31/10/2023 14:46

I'm sure if elephants had MN they'd be complaining that they were sick of raising the dgc whilst their fertile dc were out enjoying themselves.

JaneJeffer · 31/10/2023 14:47

but for some women who suffer from bad health in midlife, it may very well be diet related
Which may very well be socioeconomic related

Original poster

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:48

gamerchick · 31/10/2023 14:44

Fab, you go forth and embrace all the feeling shit and the rest of us will deal with ours as we see fit.

I don't feel shit, I feel better than I ever have done, stronger, more stamina, more assertive, good health, as do many of my friends. I do get a bit fed up of this narrative that women of my age need special treatment because we are undergoing something difficult and traumatic.

I'm not. The menopause has been the best thing ever for me, and I would like other women to see it as a lovely and natural thing, not something to dread, and if you do have medical problems, then go to the GP- but don't expect medical problems, you don't need to expect them

OP posts:

sollenwir · 31/10/2023 14:49

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:44

you could well have hit the crux of the issue there! Not for everyone, but for some women who suffer from bad health in midlife, it may very well be diet related

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you could well have hit the crux of the issue there! Not for everyone, but for some women who suffer from bad health in midlife, it may very well be diet related

There is evidence that diet can play a role, but a good diet doesn't mean no problems just as a bad one doesn't mean lots of problems.

Original poster

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:49

Dwappy · 31/10/2023 14:45

In the wild I think most female chimps (and other great apes) will die before they reach menopause. Its more common to be seen in captive chimps.
It is a thing yes but it's quite uncommon in the wild.
Orangutans have also been seen to have a menopause. And they are very solitary creatures so will not be helping raise any babies after it.
For any of the great apes I'm pretty sure it's not the "second half of their life" though even in captivity. If they live long enough it may be a few years maximum.

It is very common in the wild, and the leadership in many groups depends on post menopausal females

OP posts:

Delatron · 31/10/2023 14:50

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:48

I don't feel shit, I feel better than I ever have done, stronger, more stamina, more assertive, good health, as do many of my friends. I do get a bit fed up of this narrative that women of my age need special treatment because we are undergoing something difficult and traumatic.

I'm not. The menopause has been the best thing ever for me, and I would like other women to see it as a lovely and natural thing, not something to dread, and if you do have medical problems, then go to the GP- but don't expect medical problems, you don't need to expect them

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Oh good for you! If only the rest of womenkind could be like you. What’s your secret. Please tell? Is it your wholesome diet and exercise? I’m sure nobody has tried that before! Stupid women…

sollenwir · 31/10/2023 14:51

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:48

I don't feel shit, I feel better than I ever have done, stronger, more stamina, more assertive, good health, as do many of my friends. I do get a bit fed up of this narrative that women of my age need special treatment because we are undergoing something difficult and traumatic.

I'm not. The menopause has been the best thing ever for me, and I would like other women to see it as a lovely and natural thing, not something to dread, and if you do have medical problems, then go to the GP- but don't expect medical problems, you don't need to expect them

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I am glad it's going well for you, I am, however a bit of empathy for those who aren't doing so well wouldn't go amiss. It's also silly to say 'don't expect medical problems' because, as women, we have a responsibility to be educated and aware of what medical problems may arise and how to seek help.

Dwappy · 31/10/2023 14:53

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:49

It is very common in the wild, and the leadership in many groups depends on post menopausal females

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In chimps? Do you have any articles/ research about it to hand? Not being snarky im genuinely interested. I'm fascinated by the great apes and their social structures and the only stuff I've heard indicates menopause around age 50 which is towards the top end of a life span for a chimp.

Toloveandtowork · 31/10/2023 14:57

That's the grandmother hypothesis about why felales of some species live beyond reproductive age.
I was reading a peice about it last week which says it's not true that all of these grandmothers devote themselves to grandchildren. Several primates were mentioned. And when it comes to humans, many grandmothers don't want to look after their grandchildren.
Not another stick to keep women going until they die...

ComtesseDeSpair · 31/10/2023 14:57

allsfairin · 31/10/2023 14:49

It is very common in the wild, and the leadership in many groups depends on post menopausal females

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The “grandmother hypothesis” would be largely irrelevant for chimpanzees as it’s relatively rare for older female chimps to live with their daughters, grandchildren and great grandchildren. Their group structures are quite disparate. Instead, the theory is that older females may stop reproducing to prevent them from competing with younger healthier females for chances to breed.

Cosycover · 31/10/2023 15:01

Awk shut up

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 31/10/2023 15:01

I do actually feel like a female elephant at times. One that is very annoyed and about to charge.

JaneJeffer · 31/10/2023 15:02

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 31/10/2023 15:01

I do actually feel like a female elephant at times. One that is very annoyed and about to charge.

Me too except I want to join the circus

Rincol · 31/10/2023 15:07

Not sure what your argument is here OP. Hopefully it's not "I personally haven't had any problematic menopause symptoms therefore everyone else should stfu. If it's a problem for other women it's their fault for eating wrong, expecting wrong and being wrong. Stop making such a fuss. Look at the elephants and dolphins!"

Because that would be incoherent pointless nonsense.