To think living in a city is too much for DC?

[AllstarFacilier]

DC1 is applying for university. They want a job that will most likely mean they’ll need to live in a city, as there won’t be many opportunities for it. It’s a niche, arty specialism and tbh wouldn’t transfer to other jobs much, so they need to be absolutely sure that they want to do this before starting to pay for the course.

The pay is hard to find an average of, as most things say you can expect between £35000 and £85000 per year, so quite varied and I imagine will depend on experience.

Round our little town, £35000 sounds a decent wage. Houses are around £12000 for a nice semi 2 bedroomed with a drive. So DC thinks this is a good wage. However, if moving to a city such as London or Manchester, I doubt this will translate as well. I’m not sure how much accommodation would be in London, or where the areas people live in to be able to travel in to the main area. Does anyone know how much it would cost roughly for one person to rent and travel in London? Plus then there will be council tax, bills etc.

I don’t want to put them off a career they are passionate about, but I also don’t want them to have a degree that is unusable around here and not be able to afford to use it elsewhere.

YABU - let them figure it out as they go and it will all work out
YANBU - City life is too expensive for a single person to start off in a career

First of all, everyone I know started their career in a city, because that's where the jobs mostly are, there are more house-shares, better transport and more social opportunities. It's totally normal to start your adult life in a city, regardless of salary.

Secondly, London and Manchester are two massively different places in terms of living expenses - I've lived in both places and the price I paid for my three-bed house in Manchester wouldn't buy me a studio flat in London. You're not comparing like with like. 'A city' could mean Birmingham, Newcastle, Nottingham, Liverpool, Glasgow, Cardiff, Leeds... all these places are a great deal cheaper than London.

Either way, stop trying to engineer your adult child's life. It's not up to you to decide what degree they do or where they live. You're overthinking this and projecting your anxieties and life choices on to your child. It's not a good look.

I live in London as an autistic adult and I find the lifestyle is brilliant for my needs. Less need for interaction as so much is automated. But having less money can be limiting, and accommodation is expensive and hard to find. I had a council flat a young adult due to my needs and that helped a lot as I wouldn't have coped with living with flatmates, and it meant my money could go further. But your DC wouldn't be eligible. I also get PIP and a Freedom Pass as well so don't pay for public transport. Your DC could eventually get those but it's not guaranteed as they are functioning well enough to be in HE. And I think having grown up here, I know the cheaper places to go to shop and ways of getting cheap tickets etc so I can live more cheaply than a newcomer. Personally I think I'd struggle on a wage of £35k and having to live in house shares and having to pay for travel and not getting PIP. Being autistic does mean that some of the things that young grads have to endure are more of a struggle compared to NTs.

I think 35k is a bit of an optimistic starting salary for set design. They are very unlikely to start off in the west end, much more likely as an assistant in a smaller theatre. However, I think they will be fine. Lots of the juniors in my work earn much less than 35k. They live I cheap flatshares in not the nicest areas and cycle in or get the bus to work. They socialise cheaply.

Why wouldn't you encourage your son to go to uni in a city so that he gets a realistic taste of city life and expenses ?

City life is exciting for someone just starting out. It's expensive but being young is the perfect time live very centrally in a flatshare.

Set design will be a freelance career, not a steady wage. It very well may be hard for them as an autistic person - it’s not conducive to routine, for example. And they will need to build a network and spend a lot of time doing things for free and working another job on the side, at least to begin with. West End shows are the top of the tree, obviously - you won’t start out there.

They absolutely need experience with am-dram, work placement at the local theatres etc.

It’s fine to have it as an ambition but lots can change if they’re not even at uni or on a course somewhere yet. Don’t put the cart before the horse worrying about money.

You are getting ahead of yourself. I don't know what the degree is but a huge percentage of people don't go on to do what they studied for. Even if it is arty, you can do other things or a masters if you want to switch.

£35-85 k is more than enough to live on in London! I live on that and I have two kids (albeit with a partner earning the same), but this is years away. One thing at a time.

Staying in your small town and doing and apprenticeship sounds a bit smothering to me. Clip their wings! I'm sure the autism element is worrying for you and I can understand why you are concerned.

Sorry, you said ‘like set design’? Lighting design? I’d think there’s actually a decent career there even if not West End because every performance needs lighting, even one-person performances like comedy or singers, even when they’re on a black drapes studio set. Regional theatre employs a lot of people.

Omg let them live their own life

i doubt that 35K is the starting salary for a graduate, if the top bracket is 85k. They have to be prepared to start on less. But they’ll work it out - plenty of people work in fields unrelated to their degree.

But it’s not for the OP to consider at all though is it?

If I was half way through university and applying for graduate jobs and trying to imagine my future life and my Mum said to me “I’ve actually been considering X and Y cities for you” that wouldn’t be ok.

It’s up to the OP’s child to plan a future.

Like many others on this thread I was also from a cheap / deprived town and I was desperate to leave. My parents didn’t need to opine or decide for me.

Also the OP needs to consider that where her child moves at 21 to start their career is just where they are living at 21. Plenty of people start their careers in a city, get great experience, connections and a good CV (and have a blast while they’re at it) and then go and get jobs elsewhere when they’re ready to settle down.

I can see why you are concerned but would suggest that the cost of living in a city in a few years time should not really be the main one right now.

I agree with a PP that set design is a challenging, insecure career and requires working as part of a team under tight time and budget pressures. It requires excellent social skills, flexibility and resilience.

It sounds like your teenager has a dream but I think it would be a challenging career for an autistic person who you say doesn't really like socializing so I will assume isn't great with people.

They should apply for this work experience placement - deadline is 4 Dec so get cracking. There are online workshops if they can't get to Manchester, London or Nottingham
https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/learn-explore/young-people/young-technicians/

There are also apprenticeship schemes that would be cheaper than doing a degree

https://www.roh.org.uk/learning/young-people/apprenticeships/the-scheme

https://www.rsc.org.uk/jobs/where-do-i-fit-in/apprenticeships

They're bound to be naive about these things at their age, that's what uni is for, to transition into being less naive and seeing how things work. Which will be different for them than it was for you. But there's no point totting up rent and bills equations per location at this stage and making overly cautious decisions so that the end result is an affordable local house. The best thing about your post is that DC knows what they enjoy and want to pursue. That's a huge thing and more than a lot of kids their age have, so let them explore it for themselves, learn their craft and how the industry works, then make their way. This -

If they were to stay local, they could get an apprenticeship or work in a different field.

is irrelevant as it's not what they want to do and feels like something from a past generation where people had to do jobs their parents insisted upon instead of what they're interested in and what will have more chance of making them fulfilled. Also there are permanent jobs on the tech/production design side of theatre/film/tv/touring but who knows where he'll end up at this point. One step at the time and all the best to 'them'!

YABU. They don't need to buy a house immediately. Encourage them to pursue their interests, and broaden their horizons. And it is none of your business, now they're an adult.

Thanks so much for this, it’s really helpful and kind! I’ll pass the links on to DC.

I’m not going to respond to comments about cutting apron strings or it being none of my business as that’s not advice that is needed when people don’t know my child’s capabilities. I’d love for them to be more independent, and we’re working on skills in preparation for university such as transport. They’d be fine being told which number bus to go on if we trialled it a few times, but if the bus was ever cancelled then they’d need to learn to be resilient and of course I want to help them with that.

Someone mentioned other cities, and DC is angling towards London because of the West End, however we went to see a show in Manchester this year so that opened that possibility up. We could maybe do a few city visits in order for them to see what they like about each place.

Theatre work is work that can be done in cities and large towns all over the place, so that's actually quite good from that perspective. In terms of pay, I think it would vary massively and I suspect that to start, it would be pretty dire.

I also think a general course studying set design is not a bad thing - DH worked in theatre and while he was a performer, his friends from that time were less likely to be the other performers and more likely to be the backstage teams. I can tell you that within theatres, backstage teams are hugely varied and there are options to move around. Set design itself is often done elsewhere and a friend worked for a company that did set design - he was an engineer and was hired to help them with things like designing the way sets moved around the stage, or made things fly. He did a lot of work on sets for cruise ships in fact and at one point spent a few months in the far east overseeing the build of a set on a cruise ship there.

My point is that there's quite a lot of variety and it's not a bad thing to do. Most of DH's friends from those days are not still in theatre - the hours aren't particularly family friendly if you work in theatre itself, but there are related jobs and transferable skills.

OP it’s hard to let them grow up and make their own mistakes, and it must be even harder with a child who has autism or any other extra challenge. You’ve had helpful advice here, and the thing I most wanted to comment on is that you are focusing on I think the wrong question. This sounds like a fairly recent enthusiasm and one in which your child has no experience and isn’t prepared to apply for opportunities. I think your focus should not be on whether they will be able to afford to live in a city but on practical exposure to set design to ensure it is really what they want to apply for.

This is really reassuring, thank you so much. The cruise information is particularly interesting, I think that’s something they’d be excited to know!

Thanks, yes this is also a concern, but I don’t want to discourage something that they’re enthusiastic about. We’ll try and get the ball rolling with some amateur experience to see if they really do enjoy it. Whilst it’s not the end of the world to study something and then not continue in it, university is so expensive and so I do think they need to have a good idea of whether it’s right before they have to pay for it.

What have I just read?! A person will have SO many more opportunities in a city, and they're not all expensive places to live. Or maybe the young adult would like to live abroad?
The bottom line is that it's for the individual to decide, and absolutely nothing to do with their interfering parents!

That was my mum’s concern- thank god I didn’t listen to her.

I feel really sorry for all of the bright working class kids who are told to think small and sensible and just focus on getting a ‘good 30k job’ and a little terraced 2 bed at aged 25. So many of those kids are in dull careers in dull towns when they could have been doing something incredible that their parents haven’t even heard of because their families couldn’t provide mental security and constantly worried about cash.

I didn’t even want to do anything arty- I am a teacher. But I moved to London straight after university. Brilliant social, educated social group in the arts and finance and politics, had an amazing social life and met my super interesting husband who would have never visited my beige little hometown. Even as ‘just a teacher’- I’ve had access to brilliant, dynamic professional development and gained so much experience from being in the capital.

Your child needs to be allowed to grow up and blossom and stretch their wings- if they are shy and quiet, all the more reason to move on to something more vibrant really.

A relative of mine in his 20s builds sets, mostly TV and films rather than theatre. Doesn’t have a degree so no student debt but has just bought his own flat in an outer London borough which he’s modernising himself thanks to his DIY skills and will have a mate in the spare room to help with the mortgage. He got his kitchen for free after building it for a TV advert and just asking what they were doing with it afterwards! If he’s going through a quiet period, which hasn’t happened for a while, he takes on handyman/carpenter/decorating jobs mostly through word of mouth. It’s really not a bad career choice at all.

I'd be a bit dubious over the £35k-85k salary estimate. A former classmate of mine went into set design and I gather a lot of it is on a self employed basis with vary variable pay. She's been doing it for over a decade and is quite vocal on social media about it being a pursuit of passion, not a lucrative career. To give an idea, she's produced for shows in London but can't afford to live there - she lived with her family for a while and now rents close to home.

That's not to say it's won't work, but if your DC is looking for a job with steady pay and straightforward progression then it might not be the most suitable option.

I think budget depends on what kind of lifestyle they plan to have and how picky they are about their living situation. I ended up living in Manchester as part of my degree studies and initially was in a flat share which was £740 a month (probably will be more than this now with interest rates etc) and I absolutely hated it. Yes it was cheaper than renting alone but I couldn’t have stayed there for the full year it was awful, it was a small flat and I found sharing a small kitchen/bathroom/living area with someone I didn’t really know just didn’t work for me at all. I met a friend through work in a similar situation and we ended up finding a bigger flat and went into that just the 2 of us which was around £1750 a month (so about £875 each) which was more expensive but worth every penny for me personally because I hated my previous place. But if your DC is planning on renting alone, be prepared to be looking at probably a minimum of £1100 per month on rent.

The other thing to consider is that depending on lifestyle it can be expensive living in a city like Manchester, there’s always a bar/pub/cafe/restaurant open and 100 different takeaway options on Uber all hours of the day and night! Obviously this can be the case anywhere, but if DC has come from somewhere where this isn’t so much of a thing in a small town ( DH & I bought our house and now live up North somewhere similar) then they could easily end up spending a fortune when surrounded by all of these options, plus every night seems to be like a weekend in a lot of cities, the pubs are just as busy on a random Tuesday night as they are on a Friday!

Manchester has a tram network and the Bee bus network you can easily live out of the city in cheaper accommodation and commute in. Lots of areas surrounding Manchester have low house prices.