No uniforms and first names

[SailorStow]

My DD is only 2 but to get a head start we have been looking at schools locally.
One of our closest schools is massively over subscribed, the last distance offered has been as low as 300/400m and we fall within this.
It has a great local reputation, Ofsted good (assessed in 2022) and great KS1 and KS2 results (obviously these are a bit dated now).
Putting all of that aside, this school has no uniforms and the children call teachers by their first names.
I haven’t been able to find any reasoning from the school for these choices, it seems to have been that way for a while at this school.
I’ll be honest I was looking forward to DD having a uniform, picking clothes for myself everyday is exhausting enough!!
Excluding everything else about the school would no uniform and calling teachers by their first name be in the pros or cons list for you? How much would it bother you either way?

AIBU to view these as negatives in what otherwise seems to be a great school?

My kids went to a primary school with no uniforms and first names for staff. It is in Ireland, the patronage is called Educate Together, most state schools in Ireland are Catholic and we wanted a non denominational school. The ethos of the school is child centred. No uniform was never an issue I found it easier and kids were more comfortable. They mainly went to school in leggings or tracksuits, never any issue with what they wore or what brand of clothes, most kids wore clothes from Primark and h&m.
The first names for teachers was also no issue, the reason behind it in this school was to demonstrate that everyone deserved to be respected there was no hierarchy of respect. It was a fantastic school and my kids were very happy there. The secondary school they are in has commented on how mature and pleasant the children always are from that school.

TBH as a teacher I wouldn’t take too much notice of Ofsted anyway!

I think this school sounds great. I’ve always felt schools should have to justify uniform rather than lack of one. It sounds like the school you’ve picked has very sensible priorities - the teachers will have the time and energy to actually do their job rather than arguing with pupils over the colour of their socks.

I wouldn't be put off by these things.

Teacher first names will make mo real difference to anything. I prefer it because of the massive difference between Miss and Sir which you inevitably get when surnames are used.

I preferred not having to put my kids in uniform in primary. Most kids wore leggings/jogging bottoms and hoodies every day and for me it was easier as they could wear anything, I didn't have to have all the uniform ready on a Sunday night. Now they are in secondary and wear uniforms it's more hassle to get it all sorted for Monday. Also, neither of my kids cared one bit about clothes in primary but now in secondary they are obsessed with branded coats and shoes.

I'd embrace it personally but it may not mean very much either way. I would be wary of reading too much into it - it may or may not reflect a bigger ethos difference.

When I started school in the 80s, our infant school was own clothes. My mum says this was normal at the time. It was just a bog standard local infant school.

The morning DS started primary school, he spent a significant amount of time crying about how much he hated the uniform. I was a little sad too as it was the first time he’d ever worn synthetic fabrics, and I hated having to spend twice the price to get such horrible uncomfortable ugly crap just because Britain wants to remind children of their powerlessness (go look up the origins of school uniform).

YABU, having no uniform is wonderful. If you don’t want to spend time choosing clothes then don’t, just buy a pile of black jogging bottoms and a pile of t shirts, and pick one at random every morning.

Fyi this year I’ve spent £800 on compulsory school uniform, some of which will doubtless be stolen, lost, or never used by the school.

I wouldn't choose a school like this. I'm a big believer in the equalising power of school uniforms.

Both would be massive positives for me.

YANBU. I would never send my children to a school like that. It shows a lack of professionalism and an understanding of the importance of uniform, hierarchy, rules, structure etc.

It’s a casual, lazy approach and doesn’t align with my values at all.

I'd be fine with both. My son hates school trousers (have tried a few) and outside school lives in leggings or joggers. So long as no brand names are allowed, I'd like no school uniform.

No problem with first names either, he calls every other adult by their first name and used first names in nursery, seems odd to suddenly switch to surnames.

I also don't think Outstanding is as important as some people think it is. I have a lot of friends who are teachers and they all say the schools getting Outstanding are spending a lot of time and effort jumping through hoops for Ofsted, rather than focusing on what's best for the children 🤷

It wouldn’t bother me if it was working - it’s normal for schools in some places eg Denmark. The non uniform thing would be a bit of a PITA

Good grief, don't hold back there! I have found the complete opposite of what you described. My kids went to a no uniform school and called their teachers by their first names. It was a wonderful school and has produced mature, respectful, engaging, understanding teens. Their secondary school has commented on the high standard of pupils that come from that school

It's only really the UK and a few other countries who have uniform in the first place, so this really wouldn't factor into my decision-making.

The first names thing wouldn't bother me either - again, it's normal in many places.

You can say it produces whatever you like, but the very nature of their approach does not value the importance of rules, structure, hierarchy or professionalism.

Those values are important to me that I want instilled in my children.

As a primary teacher who doesn't like her first name, I have determinedly avoided ever working in a school where I will be unable to avoid hearing it several hundred times a day.

In US/Canadian curriculum schools overseas, Ms Firstname seems common. One school I worked in (not UK) teachers were Mr/Ms Lastname but TAs were Ms Firstname. The nuances were probably lost on the younger children who could not differentiate between a first and last name in our multicultural community anyway.

When I started school in the 80s, our infant school was own clothes. My mum says this was normal at the time. It was just a bog standard local infant school.
Not everywhere. We moved from one end of the country to another in 1987 which meant my younger brother moved infant to infant school and my mum was really surprised to find no uniform. She bought him 2 sets of matching knitted sleeveless jumpers and elasticated ties to be his uniform!

Never said there were no rules or that it wasn't professional fgs. If you feel a school with no uniform and calling a teacher by their first name equals lack of structure or professionalism doesn't say much about the standard of teaching and compliance if they're relying on those two small things to maintain control

It’s nothing to do with control

Quite clearly we have different values because you think that kind of a school is an appropriate place to send your child, and that tells me everything I need to know about you.

I also don't think Outstanding is as important as some people think it is. I have a lot of friends who are teachers and they all say the schools getting Outstanding are spending a lot of time and effort jumping through hoops for Ofsted, rather than focusing on what's best for the children.

This with bells on. I worked for many years in a ‘good ‘school. It was fantastic. Such a caring family atmosphere, great results and SEN provision was top notch. I lived in fear of it becoming outstanding because of the pile of extra paperwork that would no doubt be created. Loved being referred to as Miss. Always made me feel youthful. 🙂

And that statement tells us everything we need to know about you.

My DD went to a primary school like this. The no uniform bit ironically clearly identified the kids with well off parents. It was an absolute pain for us .

The calling teachers by their first name seemed more of a non issue .

You want to instil the value of hierarchy into your kids?

OP, my children also go to this model of primary school here in Ireland - they're wildly popular schools and very oversubscribed. I'm 100% happy with both the lack of uniform and the first names; I thought the clothes thing might be a hassle but it's really not, they can wear anything clean and weather-appropriate, and there's no Sunday night panic about uniforms. The first name thing is lovely, it helps to make all the staff really approachable. Using Mr and Ms/Miss/Mrs is just convention, it has nothing to do with actual respect.

Absolutely not true! I had to move my DD from her ‘Outstanding’ primary because of disruption, terrible behaviour and the fact that she was two years behind in the curriculum because the class was so chaotic. If I had my time again, I would have absolutely chose the ‘Good’ school just down the road, which her friends are thriving at.

Ofsted ratings are not worth the paper they are written on

A 2022 good is likely to be a much better school than any pre 2017 outstanding

@AppropriateAdult Of course. It is essential to understand hierarchy and the importance of it.