To think this isn't normal for a 4 year old

[Delphina17]

DH thinks I'm mad and that DD, who is 4.5, is completely normal. I wonder if she could be on the spectrum and be good at masking. Or have a different issue that she may need support with.

She still has huge tantrums, hits and kicks her dad (and sometimes me, but not anyone else), gets easily upset and frustrated. She struggles with change and lack of routine (eg. her behaviour this week is becoming very challenging due to it being half-term). She refuses to change her room even though it's set up for a baby and any suggestion of making things look cool seem to stress her out. Her emotions are extreme... Saying goodbye to anyone, even a child she met half an hour before, makes her incredibly sad and there's tears and shouts of 'I will never see XXX again!!!'. She gets really scared easily (eg. She used to be the only child at nursery who would cry in terror if they read going on a bear hunt). She's sensitive to noises, and water temperature (seems to struggle to realize when the temperature is not too hot or too cold), and is constantly fidgeting. She bites her nails to the point she almost has no nails left.

DH says above doesn't mean anything because: she is very empathetic, also extremely manipulative. She's not any smarter than the average 4 year old (nor behind on anything), but she does have a crazy imagination, writes her own small books (draws stories and makes me write what she wants it to say), has imaginary friends and seems to be good at making friends (though terrible at remembering names). She seems to have very strong attachments to people.

Should I push to see a GP or is her behaviour nothing to worry about? Really don't know how to stop the tantrums and hitting - we've tried everything, so that's why I'm thinking maybe there's something else going on.

No, I don’t think that’s normal behaviour for a 4 year old. Also don’t like the sound of your DH characterising her as manipulative. Have nursery raised any concerns?

That's a lot of extreme behaviour and no it doesn't sound normal but could have many varied causes.
I'd speak to someone.

There could be a lot of causes, but yes it needs looking at.

Is she still under a Health visitor, if so that would be my first port of call.
How is her attention span? Difficult for a 4 year old I know, but it does sound as though possibly ADD/ADHD (and I hate the overuse and self diagnosis of these which is common at the moment)
Might just be her personality and she will settle down when in full time school, really only a professional assessment will tell you. Good luck. 🩷

She sounds a bit like me when I was a child, and I was diagnosed with autism as an adult.
What do her teachers think?

Is she an only child?

This sounds exactly the same as a girl I taught for 2 years. She wouldn't remember anyone's names, even if they had been in her class for 2 years, because it meant nothing to her. She was hyper sensitive, couldn't sustain any relationships, her imagination was excellent, but she was impulsive and would lose all control if she felt wronged or was told no. I loved her, but her mum was begging for help by KS2 because the teachers were less understanding of the demands. I'd ask her school if they are seeing signs of this.

@Morello339 was there anything else going on with the girl you mention? Sounds like my son and I just can’t put my finger on what it might be.

My son is the exact same age as your DD and I would agree with you that behaviour is not "normal" so definitely worth a visit to docs

A few things you’ve mentioned might suggest ASC. I’d see your GP now - it takes years to get assessed so there is some advantage in starting early.

My DS was diagnosed with ASC/ADHD at 3 but he was much “worse” iykwim. He also had the classic spiky profile - including being good at school, shit at names/faces and prone to emotional disregulation.

Hope you get sorted.

Thank you all for your responses! Nursery thought she was bright and didn't think anything was up. Thing is, around other people she would never throw tantrums or get violent with them, it's only at home she's really extreme or when saying goodbye. With the names, she can remember names and faces of everyone she went to nursery with but has only learnt about 5-6 names of people in her reception class, while everyone seems to know who she is.

I am worried they might think I'm an over worried parent if I go to the GP, but hopefully they won't judge! I'll definitely make an appointment. Thank you all!

Your child sounds very similar to mine (6yo). He is currently being assessed for ADHD as well as ASD but from the assessments so far it’s looking like ADHD. Have a look at what the NHS websites say about displaying characteristics. Then go to your GP. Speak with nursery setting and ask them to refer as well.

@Delphina17 my almost 4 year old sounds similar.

She is very emotional at home but the model child at preschool. I've been wondering if it's 'normal' too. It's like she focuses so hard on bring well-behaved at preschool that she then is so overwhelmed she loses the plot emotionally at home.

Also wakes up crying every morning. Doesn't know why.

But doesn't fit the descriptions of ASC/ADHD, concentrates, focuses, likes social interaction, etc.

Interesting that some have mentioned ADHD! Can children have it but still be good at concentrating? DD can play by herself for 1-2 hours, will practice writing words for an hour without getting bored, so hadn't thought of that one! It's mainly the hitting her dad, still having tantrums, inappropriate emotions and potential sensory issues (eg. She loves soft play but refused to go the other day because there were too many loud children there, gets confused about bath temperature, hates loud noises) that I'm worried about.

Sounds like adhd, my daughter has it she was diagnosed last year. The reason she is hitting out at you and dad and having meltdowns is because she is possibly masking all day at school. You, dad and home is her safe place where she can let her emotions out that she has held in all day. Speak to the school and ask if the senco can assess her in class? The waiting list is huge for assessments with a paediatrician so get the ball rolling now. My daughter was showing signs from age 2.

Hi op. My 9 year old is autistic and yes a lot of this sounds familiar.

The most important thing is that you write all this down. It may take a while to work out what is going on for your child..whether she is neurodiverse or anxious or has a sensory processing disorder etc.

But...the fact is it wont be totally clear for a while. My child's nursery didnt particularly notice other than saying she was nervous and lacking in social skills . Her school didnt notice other than her being very anxious

But..we pieced it all together and as she got older it became more and more obvious
This will be years of work for you before you get a diagnosis (and I recommend you go private if you can(. So just start keeping notes and pushing the senco at school now

ADHD can mean that children hyper focus on things. My son would sit for hours doing Maths.

She sounds like DD who I suspect has adhd. Has she got ear defenders? Might be worth getting her a pair if noise is a problem, they really help my DD stay calm and makes the world less scary.

My DD is a model student at school, but unleashes merry hell once she’s home at times, or just needs to be alone to decompress. I’ve found that reading tips for parenting an adhd child have been really successful, there have been a lot less meltdowns with her since I adapted my parenting style to try to be what she needs me to be, whilst also getting what I need from her.

Round my way, the won’t assess until year two, so we’ve got a battle ahead of us!

Sounds like my youngest you is being assessed for ADHD. I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD also and that all sounds very familiar. Hyper focus is a massive thing with ADHD.

Some of those sound just like I was, I have ADHD. Look up hyper focussing.

Yes agree she needs a referral for ASD / ADHD.

Also, she’s not confused about the temperature of the bath. She has sensory differences. If she says it’s too hot for her then it is. Listen to her preferences and meet them if you can. My autistic eldest daughter has baths that I would consider cold but she can’t stand anything warmer. Sensory processing issues affect ASD and ADHD individuals.

My Dd had almighty tantrums till 5 years old - pretty much from birth. She would scream in frustration even as a newborn (her twin brother just cried like a 'normal' child). I thought there was something wrong with her. She would actually hurt herself kicking and screaming and not realise. She cut her foot once when she kicked her door in (she was 3!). It was weird like a switch went off when she was 5 and it stopped. She didn't display all the other stuff your Dd is though. She is to this day very stubborn and doesn't give up. It's a good character trait.

I wouldn’t rush towards a diagnosis. If she’s just started school that’s a big deal and some kids take a long time to feel settled and happy. Re changing her room, I think the timing is wrong because of being in the midst of change. However, as the mother of a boy, I can’t imagine an interest in decor at 4.5. I recall we spent the first half term studying phonics cards with me being taught the sounds 😂

Hyperfocus is a lesser known symptom of ADHD. If it's an activity or task they really enjoy, they can become hyperfocused to the point of seemingly not hearing anything else. This can also cause problems with time management, as it's hard for them to transition to a different, less enjoyable task.

My dd (almost 7) is very similar. Look up Coke bottle effect. "Fine at school", falls apart at home. The educational psychologist saw her last week and believes there's subtle signs of performance anxiety which she does very well to hide at school. This is a feature of both asd and adhd. She's meeting expectations academically but has peaks of anxiety that result in school avoidance and tactile sensitivity.

Be prepared for a long wait for support though, sorry. We've jumped through hoops for two years and are only just beginning to make some progress towards properly understanding her needs and having her assessed. In girls ADHD often presents as attention deficit and in less obvious ways that professionals are still not always alert to recognising.

Hi OP this sounds very similar to my daughter (6). We have had an ASD diagnosis this week and they have also recommended we get an ADHD diagnosis.