To rant about government financial help

[Alittlenonsensenowandthen]

Firstly, I'll say that I've previously been in receipt of financial help from govt and extremely grateful and also want those who need help to be helped, but...
I've now met two people (retired) who are telling me what they're spending their fuel allowance on (new flat screen TV, holidays, new sofas). This is not an agiest or benefit bashing thread but it just gets my goat that there are people happily spending money given for heating on luxuries. It's not actually their fault - they haven't asked for the money, it wasn't means tested so arguably why not spend it and see it as bonus money. If govt wants to help, it needs to pay for things directly surely?
Just really bugging me at the moment because we're fine financially but only just, and we earn too much for help.
Argh! Just needed a rant to the ether this eve!

Lots of richer taxpayers will already be submitting tax returns, i.e. if they have a buy to let property, or lots of investment income (dividends or interest above lower limits), or occupational pensions, etc. Not everything can be done via the PAYE tax code and SA returns remain a requirement when people have buy to lets or high amounts of investment income.

Hence why I suggested the claw back at income levels of £50k or more (just like child benefit removal!). Most pensioners wouldn't be affected. Those with higher incomes would have to pay back the WFA. It's how they did it for child benefit claw back, so why not for the WFA??

National finances aren’t like a credit card despite the simplistic picture painted by politicians who want you to believe they are.

But then someone is going to be worse off because they're a few pounds over the cut off. I remember with the cost of living payments people were complaining about this - the new pension is a few pounds over pension credit

Just a thought, many of the people of state pension age who are eligible for the WFP and cost of living payment are also providing free child care and/or elderly relative care. Something that is worth billions to the economy, not to mention over stretched families, yet is frequently overlooked in the constant pensioner bashing that goes on here. An extra £500 one off payment to provide a comfortable environment for babies/children/vulnerable relatives seems a bargain!

Me too(Scotland)scraping ice off the single glazed windows (70's-80's) no heating only coal fire in the lounge , it was bloody miserable in the winter . Wanted to play with my toys but couldn't bear to as it was just too cold to play in the bedroom .
I hated getting out of bed to get dressed on the cold winter mornings .

Oh and I also remember pensioners dying of the cold in the 80's and Edwina Currie telling them to get their knitting needles out . No government would ever want to see that happening on their watch .

There are people who have posted on MN that they're comfortable.

pensioner HAVE PAID into the system for yrs unlike many who havn;t worked but get benefits.

Don't see your point. There'll be pensioners getting the WFA who've lived a life on benefits too!

Anyway, most people take out more than they pay in over their lifetimes, but paying into the system for many years doesn't mean they've paid in enough to cover the services they've used over their lives, and age related benefits like the state pension!

YABU. As I always say on these types of threads, the real problem is not going after the companies who get away with paying heavily reduced or no taxes or the companies who have been allowed to keep record profits for themselves.

Nothing will ever change my opinion that the rich should be contributing far more to help the rest of us out.

What I've done in the example is assume that most people save 10% of what they eRn(and this is an idea world where one person buys goods/service from another person and so on). So each time the money is spent it grows in value to the economy.
If I earned £100, I would spend £90 buying something from you. You would save £9 and spend £81.
It's what trump did. Or the eat out to help out in a way. On a big scale it's quantitive easing.... putting more money in the economy either by physical printing notes, or central banks lending more
The downside is it's inflationary, more money in the economy chasing the same amount of goods and services pushes prices up

It costs additional money to means test the benefit.

if the money isn’t spent on heating, it is still likely spent given the demographic. This means money for the economy.

Of course it is. Wouldn't we older pensioners who have small private or occupational pensions that take us just over PC limits love to get that extra £50 or so a week?

Winners and losers see it differently.

Everything paid for ?? I wasn’t aware that someone bought my shopping and paid my utility bills . Can you tell me who I should contact to arrange this?
Every generation thinks they have it worse than any other generation. I had 3 DC in the 1980s ; Mat Leave was 3 months . Interest rates double figures . Need I go on ? Yet I thought I was worse off than my mother because she only worked part time and I had to work full time .

Many excellent points made on this thread, interesting reading, thank you all.

Yes, let’s even things up a bit, shall we? We didn’t get free or subsidised child care. You? I’ve been paying tax since 1972, when the basic rate was 33% - at the higher rate for 20 years. When you’ve paid as much tax as I have - and continue to - then we can even things up.

We're also forgetting that according to the MN trope we are supposed to ensure that we stay fit in our old age so that we don't need any care (preferably whilst providing free childcare), because care squanders the kids inheritance. Alternatively we should have the foresight to give them their inheritance before the state (or one of them!) grab it and dump us in a home.

Thank you for saying the above. I totally agree.
Given that the WFA is normally less than £5 a week per household - I can only feel the venom that is poured on the heads of its recipients is very mean-spirited.

I'm old, so can remember the bitterly cold winter of 62/63.

We had an outdoor lavatory and it was so cold that the water in the pan and the cistern froze solid. When you needed a poo, you had to boil a kettle to thaw it out!

Our school toilets were outside, we got sent home when they froze. Then OUR toilet froze and we had to use next doors.

The standard of living is generally higher now than it was, no chance children and young people today would put up with some of the stuff parents and grandparents did growing up! There's definitely been a sweetspot of affordable housing, decent wages and increasing opportunities though which has now passed; swings and roundabouts.

I'm in a very similar position; final salary pension of £3,386, on which tax is payable, because the personal allowance is only bit more than my state pension.

I'm still working, and pay tax on every penny I earn, too, and I've been working since 1972. I paid NI for 49 years.

My MIL, who only worked for 15 years in her life, gets pension credit which is around £5 pw less than my full state pensions and full housing benefit, plus 100% council tax reduction. Even if I wasn't working, I'd still have to pay some of my council tax. And every time something in the house (that I skinted myself to pay for during years and years of interest rates in double figures) needs fixing, I have to put my hand in my pocket and pay for it, not just ring the landlord and ask them to do it.

I'll probably be using my winter fuel payment to get the fence fixed, and replace the fridge which is on its last legs.

Yawn. I'm a boomer, and have never voted Tory...🙄

And every time something in the house (that I skinted myself to pay for during years and years of interest rates in double figures) needs fixing, I have to put my hand in my pocket and pay for it, not just ring the landlord and ask them to do it

Oh yes. £2k a year to a fucking useless management co. I pay that myself as well.

Yeah and me. Windows frozen indoors at home and only two coal fires. It froze from November until March.

Everybody had to go to work and schools had to stay open. No staying off then...lol