Samaritans

[XmasCheerio]

I volunteer for the Samaritans (email hub rather than phones), it’s a relatively recent thing but I’m a bit surprised at how unhelpful it all seems. We can’t give advice and have a ‘listening wheel’ to follow which structures our responses.

However, I find this makes responses quite robotic. I can see previous responses from other volunteers in an email thread and there’s a shocking amount of just parroting back the callers problems to them. If it were me reaching out to the Samaritans I’d be looking for some advice, not just repeating back what I’ve said, summarising and interrogating me with questions.

They also have a self determination policy which means if a caller is suicidal we’re not to try and talk them out of it. AIBU in thinking it could be more helpful than this?

I still have a Samaritans email I received after that bereavement pinned in my inbox because it offered me comfort and compassion when nobody in real life understood or knew what to say.

It wasn't "pointless" to me.

No. They are all staffed by volunteers. But there are clear guidelines for volunteers.

Different things work for different people.

There may indeed be people who "need" to talk about problems to someone who bleats "that must be hard" but I don't think most people are in need of that kind of "help" and I don't think it's useful to be in denial about that.

Some people do just want to offload.

They don't want to be signposted - everyone signposts, I've been signposted to organisations who sodding signpost.

They don't want to be told to try mindfulness for a month to see if it helps, and here's some dates for CBT courses that you can't actually get to because of the situation you're in - thank you primary care mental health service.

I can see why there needs to be a service where none of those things happen.

I had a very similar experience. I wouldn't phone them again.

I’m a helpline volunteer for different charity. I’m not sure if this is a wind up but if it’s not, at the very least I think you need some more training. Of course we can’t give advice. We are there to support people, listen to them, empathise with them, validate them. These are all powerful things. You don’t need to tell someone what to do in order to make an impact. Some of the service users feel like they have absolutely no one. They might not have spoken to anyone for days or even weeks. They might feel unable to share their thoughts with anyone else. YABU.

If you're a fully trained volunteer, OP, surely you realise how essential it is NOT to give advice? And if you can't accept the fundamental principle of self-determination then I think you should be seriously considering whether this is the right volunteer role for you.

I volunteered on the phones for a few years. It was mostly hang ups and sex callers.!

The suicide thing is because people go through suicide alone . The idea is that with Samaritans they can have company while they go through with it. But if they request an ambulance you can ring one.

Agree re the parroting, it's not meant to be like that but it is limiting what you can say.

It depends on the skills of the person who picks up your call.

I volunteered and did phones when in my 20s and would again.

When I have a dark moment/day, the thought that there are people who have given their time just to be there for someone, anyone who might be feeling desperate, in distress or lonely - just that thought is a comfort. That there are good people who would listen to me. Some don't want to burden their family or have things that they only want to say in confidence.

For any flaws (yes I struggled with wanting to give advice), it is a life saver for many people. Sometimes we would get regular callers - I think it kept them afloat.

Sometimes, people in great distress and you'd never know if the conversation was a life line, or if they were somehow saying goodbye to the world.

But I always felt it was worthwhile. And the other Sams were brilliant. I got to know a new area thanks to their kindness.

Why we got sex calls was always a bit of a mystery to me though. I mean just why?

I don't think this role is right for you.

It's the ones where you just know you're talking to a pervert but they haven't said anything overtly sexual and have to carry on with the call regardless that get me.

We don't give advice because whatever advice we give will be prejudiced by our own experience and we can't possibly know enough about their life to give proper advice. And what if it the advice is wrong? It's not like you're there to support them.

I work in MH.

Samaritans are a listening line. Active listening can be a very powerful tool if done correctly.

Your local MH Trust will have a Crisis (intensive) team line open 24/7.
Look the number up now to have to hand for when you need it.

There are also Street Traige teams who work with the police.

Visit your GP.

Contact Mind.

There is support out there if you know how to find it xx

Can I ask those who volunteer/volunteered with Samaritans, if you can’t give advice do you point people towards those who would give them advice?
And if you do how do you say this?

They really helped me when I called them. I wasn’t suicidal - just full of disproportionate self loathing about a work problem that was worrying me. I was in a real state and he stayed on the line and helped me regain a sense of proportion and focus on the worst that could happen.

There is some signposting but actually, people sometimes really just need LISTENING to without someone telling them they know best and how to fix it.

And telling someone who's suicidal they can't do it, shouldn't do it, think of your family, think of who'll find you... it doesn't work.

Give them the space instead to talk, to talk about their feelings, does "I want to die actually mean that"? What do you want it to mean? What do you want to do? Have you ever said this out loud and how does it feel doing so?

That can be a really powerful safe place for someone.

A good volunteer doesn’t parrot. I’ve had some really good and interesting calls. It’s not about having curbs on what you can say, it’s about not taking up space giving advice where you should be listening.

yes, there are a lot of snaps and sex calls, and plenty of frequent flyers and time wasters, and no, not all suicide calls are people in the process of offing themselves. A lot of callers have suicidal feelings, they may even have plans, but people don’t like to talk about suicide, it’s not the sort of chat you can have with your spouse, or your mum, or your best friend, because they are emotionally involved. A lot of our callers don’t have anyone to talk to at all. We give people the space to talk about suicide, precisely because it is so hard to talk about. Where else can people talk about their suicidal feelings without somebody trying to influence them? We will always ask if the caller wants emergency services if they are actively harming themselves or trying to end their life, and if they don’t feel able to call for themselves we will call for them, and we’d always rather hear a caller getting help, but not all callers want to do that, and it’s part of the Samaritans model that They have that choice. It’s the deal with the devil you make when you become a Samaritan, that you accept the possibility that you might have an active suicide on the other end of the phone, and it’s an awful thing, I’ve had a few, but your training kicks in and you deal with it, and you lean on your shift partner and your leader afterwards.
Re the emails, I don’t think they are a waste of time for the people who are emailing, I think they are difficult because it’s different people responding each time so there’s no continuity, you can’t build up a rapport with the contact. What I see more often than not is repetition. The content of the emails just gets sucked into a vortex and from my side of the computer it doesn’t look particularly helpful to the contact. I can see why you feel the way you do OP, because the email format is formulaic limiting, and as I’ve said, most of us listening volunteers don’t think they are particularly helpful. If you jumped on the phones though I think you’d have a completely different experience and you’d understand why Samaritans have the policies they do.

As a former volunteer who also works in mh, yabu.

Firstly, it's a huge regional organisation they have to have some parity over what volunteers are able to do and direction for new or infrequent or inexperienced volunteers. This protects callers from inappropriate 'advice' and volunteers making it about them by oversharing personal info and protects volunteers from becoming too emotionally embroiled in something that might hit close to home. It also protects the organisation from volunteers saying the wrong thing. A lot of the info you're talking about is really prompts so if a volunteer gets stuck on a call and isn't sure what to say next, they have some ideas that might help them.

Secondly, I fully support the idea of self determination, I had a loved one who passed away by suicide and I hate that, that must have been the most lonely moment in their life because they knew if they told someone, they'd try to stop them. So they were completely alone. At the very least it means that if someone is going to kill themselves and are absolutely resolved, they don't need to be alone in their final moments. It also means if they do change their mind there is someone there who's able to get help, if calls were traced or info was required people would give false info wasting emergency services time, or they just wouldn't call at all and they'd do what they intended alone.

Thirdly, the techniques you're talking about reflecting and clarifying are basic counselling skills. So since all the volunteers are trained to a very basic standard compared to mental health provision, why would you expect them to do more than basic counselling/ listening skills. You might have experience in that field but the majority of volunteers won't.

Also, as a listener you've no idea of the full context of the callers life or mental state, even if they're a regular caller. It's not appropriate to assume you're the best placed person to give advice or that you have the full picture to do so. By reflecting and clarifying what you're trying to do is help the caller sift through their own thoughts, come to their own decision or resolution and if they can't- because some situations just can't be resolved or fixed they're just really hard, you're meant to just be there as a listening ear and a bit of compassion and empathy. You obviously can ask questions like who else have you talked to about this, who in your life could you talk to etc etc so you can help the person reflect on who would they tell that could help them and what would make that more doable for them without saying - oh you need to tell your gp or go to a and e etc. That shuts conversation down and a lot of people will have already tried those avenues and be very frustrated with the lack of help they feel they got.

@Welshpancake "knew how to hold me when I was in deep crisis". I think that's a beautiful way to put it actually. You're only there to hold space for someone who's in a painful place, not to try and 'fix' it for them.

Op, I'd recommend going back to your training lead and working through this with them because I don't think you're grasping the purpose of what you're there to do.

I called hysterically suicidal, was told to stand on my doorstep and breath in the roses... Bit like women's aid, "that's just what they do" and sent me an email of their office hours...

Hi @XmasCheerio . How recently did you train? I suggest having an open and honest conversation with you core or ED leader, or perhaps volunteer support. As you know the Samaritans offers a listening service, callers are supported to make their own decisions as they are the experts on their own lives, and we know that telling people what to do can be really unhelpful and many callers can get that elsewhere so value and open, listening ear. That is what the Samaritans does, if you as a volunteer don’t buy into the philosophy it can be damaging for you but more Importantly for callers, as you’ll know that consistency of service is key so they know what they can expect from any Samaritans volunteer. The Samaritans isn’t the right volunteering option for many people for some of the reasons you state, but if you’ve got through to un mentored shifts this should have been worked out by now so please, please, please speak to someone within your training chain or volunteer support.

As an aside the power of really engaged, active listening can be transformative.I personally think emails are much more difficult than calls, tu it really does work. Also the feeling of “parroting” should lessen as you practice and become more skilled and feel less artificial as your training kicks in and your own voice develops.

I say as as an experienced volunteer who has trained many others. Finally & once more, please check in with volunteer support, a leader, your mentor or training team, all of whom will listen with an open mind and help you find your way through this.

I'm sorry you're feeling suicidal Siren and that the call didn't help
The thing is, they don't know you well enough to really know the best action for you, and if they advise something and it goes tits up, they won't be there to pick up the pieces.

There's a million people around you who will give a million opinions on what to do. There's less people who will listen, give you space to talk and support you to find your own way forward.

I hope you can talk to someone in RL about how you're doing.

I volunteered in the early 1990s. A very elderly woman rang to complain that she’d ordered a microwave from a catalogue and the wrong one had been sent. She ranted about this. So upset.

Trivial? Well, no. Because as the conversation progressed it became clear that she had outlived her husband, friends and siblings, and she had had no children. She literally had no one with whom she could moan about life’s little gripes or celebrate life’s little wins. She was terribly lonely. THAT was the issue, not the error with the microwave.

I think it’s s great service for people who just want to offload and need a sympathetic ear. If you need advice about debt, parenting, cancer, whatever… go elsewhere, somewhere suitable, and you’ll obtain it.

I don't think they are as good as they once were.

I used to volunteer. I hated it. At our branch over 80% of calls were sex calls or men masturbating whilst pretending they were ringing with a genuine issue.

We also had some scary instances with people turning up (we had a visitors room). With mainly women volunteering I felt there was literally zero safeguarding in place to protect us from malicious men on the phone or at the door.

I called them a couple of times a few years ago, a chocolate fireguard comes to mind. Felt like I was talking to myself. Useless.