Why should we all pay for those who’ve been scammed?

[Raisinganiguana]

I’m watching Steph’s Packed Lunch and there’s a woman on there who sadly got romance scammed for £30k. Afterwards, the financial expert was really clear that if this happens to you, the banks have to give you your money back. He even said they can’t ‘weasel’ out of it.

I’m sorry for the lady, but why should everyone else pay for what is essentially someone choosing to give someone else money? We don’t pay people back if they gamble it away, so why do we demand it just because they’ve fallen for a story?

She wasn’t someone very old or vulnerable. She chose to send this man money.

btw the scammer’s story was ridiculous - and the man’s photos were actually of some super hot model - so how one falls for these is another thing….especially as there are back to back warnings everywhere and on every bloody programme nowadays.

AIBU that people need to take some responsibility?

Women who don’t listen to their friends warning them they are being manipulated and isolated by their boyfriend - idiots?

yes, it is plain idiocy to follow Andrew Tate, and if you do and you lose money because of it, no one here would be arguing for the bank to refund the misogynstic little twats who follow him.

Same for many of these "romance scams". You threw your money at some apparently hot young man, that you'd never met, for his medical bills or whatever so he could fly over and marry you, a perfect stranger twice his age... despite all the warning, despite everyone telling you not to. You're an idiot. You willingly gave your money to the most obvious scam possible.

Yes, it is plain idiocy to follow Andrew Tate. And to send money to him.

@babetyouknow - so the women abused by Andrew Tate are also idiots who deserve it, then? Sounds like men listening to him are not wasting their money after all!

Thats a massive, and offensive, leap and you should be ashamed of yourself for making the comparison.

The idiot is you trying to compare the two.

@Walkaround why are you trying to derail a legit discussion by going on and on about Andrew Tate? Quite bizarre!!

Did anyone watch the sixth commandment on iplayer, terrifying show and shows really well how people can be easily manipulated by romance scams, could really happen to anyone sadly

Only small romance fraud cases where people don’t have interaction with bank staff are refunded - the regulator is doing this to force banks to come in harder from the first transaction. Some banks have even de-banked people who try to send payments after staff has identified a romance fraud concern.

The banks make it so hard to get your own money out. At the beginning of the year my DH went to an auction. He wanted to take cash with him for the top amount he was willing to pay for the item so he could hand the cash over and bring the item back rather than having to go back to collect it when the money was transferred.

Talk about the third degree. He was in there for an hour trying to get his own money out (£5,000 if it makes any difference).

When I set up a new payee on my bank account they ask all sorts of questions and give you reminders about making sure the person you are paying is ligit.

I don't see what else they can do.

it really couldn't.

To me it’d depend on the scam.
There was one on TV, a woman, not frail or doddery elderly, or noticeably thick, who sent all her spare cash, some £30k, to a bloke she’d met online, and then took out a bank loan - £10k IIRC, to send him even more, and completely ignored the bank staff who warned her quite forcibly that it was a scam.
I couldn’t summon up much sympathy for her.
If people have been specifically warned by banks and still go ahead, IMO that’s their lookout.

Not long ago we lent a substantial amount (our money, not borrowed) to very old friends who needed a bridging loan when in between buying and selling their houses.
Our bank made a really big Thing of asking dh what the money was for, and warning strongly that it could easily be a scam.
We knew it wasn’t, and the money was soon repaid in full, but we did appreciate the bank’s vigilance.

I think it's possible to feel sorry for the victims of scammers whilst still thinking that it is not the bank's duty to reimburse them. Provided that the banks have taken steps to warn the victim (and NatWest have in my experience been really hot on doing this) I don't see what else they can do (aside from putting a block on an account which I assume none of us want?).

I haven't been a victim of a scam like this. However I used to think I would never make loads of mistakes I subsequently made. You don't know how you will respond until you are in these situations. And the scammers target people at their lowest ebb when their defences are down. I think anyone could be a victim if caught at the wrong moment.

No, I can categorically tell you that I could never be a victim of a romance scam. I do know how I would respond.
I'm a crabby old bitch who dislikes almost everyone, trusts almost no-one, and has been trained in cybersecurity since the term was invented.
there is literally no moment that I could be caught by a romance scam.

That’s not the case. Banks are in a competitive market in the uk that limits the profits they can make. Fraud losses are paid for by all of us.

No I don't think I'd be susceptible to a romance scam either, all the love bombing would be a complete turn off and I'm naturally cynical about people who I don't know that well/strangers online. I don't even do PM on here, not interested in one to one interactions with strangers.

I think it's useful to keep up to date with other scams doing the rounds (like the child WA one or fake texts from parcel delivery companies) because then you're less likely to act in a panic.

There’s controls and there’s refunding people who send their money to an obvious fraudster. People need to take responsibility for themselves

They could check where the bloody money is going is what they could do. Like actually check, trace through the layering etc.

These "scammers" aren't single guys lying about who they are. They are organisations who use forced/slave labour to get huge amounts of people - thousands of people - to set up fake profiles and spend 20 hours a day communicating with victims using scripts that utilise coercive control and other manipulative techniques. If the communicators don't bring in enough money, they are beaten or worse. The money is funnelled into illegal enterprises to fund anything from terrorism, human trafficking to drugs trade, mercenary activity and the like. And it's funnelled using the banks' own channels.

What your husband does or doesn't get up to in auction houses is irrelevant. Banks are happy enough to have systems in place that make it easier than ever for the worst kind of people to get a hold of large sums of money and move it around very quickly. Not just with these scams but with other multi layered transactions that fund misery, enslavement and death on a massive scale. The very least they could do is refund money to any poor schmuck who gets temporarily caught in a tiny part of this huge network.

banks have many complex anti money laundering systems. Doesn’t mean that they can stop people giving their money away.

Hmmm but the sixth commandment scam didn’t happen online and it was all a very slow burn… I think scammers are very innovative and adaptable in their behaviours, I’d rather be more aware of how I could be targeted then think it would never happen to me, because they will adapt their techniques. I don’t think I’d ever be a target but then I don’t know, they are pretty sophisticated, and psychological manipulation can happen to anyone… Although if I don’t talk or communicate with anyone ever then I guess it would be hard to be a victim of a scam!

They have systems that don't work. Money laundering happens all the time. This is one example of it.

Saved me writing it.

And what about the people who were victims of Anna Delvey and Elizabeth Holmes? Some of the people giving lots of their money were highly esteemed members of society, tech savvy etc…

that's different. And did they get their money back?

Do you think people are saying that all fraud is the same?