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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

which languages to learn and why?

137 replies

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 06:59

AIBU to say everybody should be able to speak a few words of Mandarin and Hindi? AS these are two of the 3 most spoken languages in the world.

I want to learn another language now, partly for fun, but also for possibly travel and career opportunities. Should it be one of these? Or is there another language you would recommend, and why?

I am expecting people to say no to everyone learning a bit of Mandarin and Hindi, but I am interested in why we don't as it seems logical that we should

OP posts:
Diegofrompennyburn · 21/10/2023 16:55

Duolingo Spanish here! Easy to do each morning, and I’ve been able to make myself understood on fairly frequent visits to Spain.

I lived in a French speaking country for a while, and also go to weekly conversation class just to keep that alive.

I learned the “hello, goodbye, please, thank you” in mandarin when I visited China for the 2009 eclipse, but I don’t know that I’d be interested in learning any more.

Zonder · 21/10/2023 16:55

sausagepastapot · 21/10/2023 15:54

Not true at all, and there are plenty of places and ways to practice BSL. Great career prospects too if that's what you're into. Otherwise it's a brilliant way to be able to chat to Deaf BSL users! (There are plenty I can assure you!)

It must depend on where you are then. My cousin is a teacher of the deaf and also works with some deaf adults. Very few of them use any BSL as most have either cochlear implants or good hearing aids. So in our county the number of BSL users is very small and you can't even find anywhere to learn it beyond level 1.

Zonder · 21/10/2023 16:58

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 15:06

o thankyou for all your suggestions, I already have French and BSL. I am wavering between Dutch and Arabic now, after reading all this - Dutch because it might help my chances of getting into the renewable energy industry, and Arabic because it seems to be quite widely spoken, and someone on here mentioned it being relatively easy....

My experience of Arabic was that it is really interesting but not easy. Mainly because of the alphabet. I couldn't find anywhere to learn it by conversation so there was no option but learn to read and write it too. I made much slower progress than in any other language I've tried.

m00rfarm · 21/10/2023 16:59

The top ten languages of native speakers (ignore the title of the URL as this is not accurate) https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/the-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world - Portuguese is 7th. I bet you rarely hear Portuguese. I live in Portugal, and until I moved here had never really heard it before. However, most of these countries have English as their second language. The ones that don't, are the ones it is worth learning. Here is the list of most spoken languages. https://www.berlitz.com/blog/most-spoken-languages-world

20 Most Spoken Languages in the World in 2023 | Berlitz

More than half of the world's population speaks only 23 out of 7000 existing languages. Keen to know which are the most spoken languages ​​in the world?

https://www.berlitz.com/blog/most-spoken-languages-world

PatienceOfEngels · 21/10/2023 17:39

I think you need to find your own motivation for learning a language - career prospects, family connections, holidays, or personal interest.

I speak Dutch because I've lived here for 15+ years (couldn't speak a word when I got here, did 3-4 years of evening classes once a week).
Learning Spanish on Duolingo because my BIL and new niece is Spanish (had a year in high school, then some lessons on a trip to S.America). I also have some Spanish colleagues I can practice with. Would write like to pick up an evening class as I like having face to face contact.
My husband's learning Italian because his company does a lot of business with Italian suppliers (being a Dutchie he also speaks German, basic French and Spanish and picks up smatterings of languages wherever he goes so has a few words of Vietnamese, Indonesian, Arabic, Vietnamese, Hebrew).

The mentality towards language learning in my corner of the EU is so different to the UK. It's regarded as part of a well-rounded education. Students at my local Dutch secondary learn English, German, French, Spanish with options in Chinese and Latin/Ancient Greek. Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone is fluent, even in English many people don't speak it or lack confidence. People of older generations are more likely to speak German than English, especially if close to the border (my PIL don't speak English). Foreign language TV is widespread with Dutch subtitles instead of dubbing (growing up in the UK it was really rare to hear foreign languages on TV/news as either it was dubbed or the world leader said a few words in English!)

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:46

I have quite a good perspective on this one I think. I was naturally good at languages at school and ended up doing a degree that combined French and Spanish with law. I am “domestic fluent” in French having been an au pair and in both languages I can speak, read and listen at business level, but would not be able to draft a business communication to the requisite standard. Once I had Spanish under my belt I took Portuguese classes as it is a fairly straightforward add-on to Spanish and French. I then spent some time working in Brazil (I was sent there by my firm because I had reasonable Portuguese, though the actual work was all in English) and I have continued to work regularly with Brazilians throughout my career.
Later I spent a decade working in Asia. I lived in Hong Kong and travelled regularly to mainland China. I was surprised to find it almost impossible to pick up conversational Cantonese just by going about daily life as, with it being a tonal language and an unfamiliar script, it was impossible for me to distinguish individual words, and any attempts to speak were so incomprehensible to the locals that it was much easier for them to speak English to me, or use a translation app. Mandarin is marginally easier than Cantonese to learn (fewer tones) and I did make some progress after a few lessons but it was painfully slow compared to my experience of Romance languages (I was doing it more for fun/curiosity though, so no real pressure to learn). I am back in the UK now and there are three kids in my son’s class with Chinese Mums, but I could not come close to chatting to them in Mandarin. I noticed on a few trips to Japan that Japanese felt more accessible as it is not tonal in the same way.

I work with a lot of Indians now as I have some involvement in software development. They all work in English, and I know that they do not all share Hindi as a language anyway (Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, Gujurati, Bengali, all very different languages).

In my view, language skills in international business, office type work are not that useful. For every British person who is an adult learner of Mandarin/Arabic/Spanish there will be 10 people who grew up bilingual in English and one of those languages and who have additional professional skills to offer. They have the benefit of not just linguistic understanding but innate cultural understanding and they are much more likely to understand the psychology, and gain the trust, of native speakers than a British learner. Plus AI translation tools are now extremely sophisticated; we are basically at the Babelfish stage now (Douglas Adams reference there!)

The other thing is that even though I speak business French, Spanish and Portuguese, I rarely use it because it is rarely just me and the speakers of one of those languages in the room/on the call/on the email chain- there will be someone else who speaks English only, or who speaks German or something plus English, and all the work is done in English anyway. At most, it helps when they can forward me an email chain with some Portuguese in it, or point me to a website in French only without having to summarise what it says as I can read it myself (though Google translate also works for that, pretty well). It does also give me novelty value and help me form good relationships if I can do a bit of chit chat in their language at the start of a meeting but that would be rude as soon as a monolingual English speaker joined the call.

Langauges are useful for work if you need to go and live in a foreign country to work, so that you can live your daily life comfortably, outside the office. At work itself, not so much unless you are bilingual.

The type of work where I think languages could be very helpful might be in the UK doing something like working with refugees or disadvantaged people from immigrant communities, people who cannot speak English but need support navigating the UK benefits or legal system, finding jobs, getting medical treatment etc. eg I could imagine that if I were a doctor it would be great to be able to take a medical history and explain a diagnosis to a Brazilian migrant worker without needing an interpreter. People whose limited English might fail them when they are scared or upset. But you don’t have those interactions in international business. And for that reason I agree that a bit of Mandarin or Hindi(or Polish or Ukrainian) might come in handy for say a social worker, but you’d need more than a smattering to make it helpful. And, again, there will be natives if those communities working in public service.

Therefore I’d counsel you against learning anything on the basis that you think it will have a real benefit for work unless you have a clear future opportunity already in your sights. But if you do want to learn something I would suggest Portuguese, specifically Brazilian Portuguese, which is much easier to understand than that spoken in Portugal. It sounds beautiful, opens up so much fabulous music, it’s a huge growing economy and has a massive diaspora.I hear Brazilians on pretty much every tube journey I take in London. It’s also a fascinating place to visit and if you go there, English is not all that widely spoken outside the business/tourist world so it is very helpful, and you can make a HUGE positive impression when they realise you speak it, as so few people ever do.

Sorte!

Normalsizedsalad · 21/10/2023 17:51

opens up so much fabulous music

I am forever disappointed that I learned English because I understand lyrics and it ruins many, many, many songs for me😂
Fondly remember the time of blissful ignorance about what many good songs were about😂

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:54

Normalsizedsalad · 21/10/2023 17:51

opens up so much fabulous music

I am forever disappointed that I learned English because I understand lyrics and it ruins many, many, many songs for me😂
Fondly remember the time of blissful ignorance about what many good songs were about😂

Ha ha, good point. Brazilian lyric writers are way more poetic than most Western pop writers though!

Validus · 21/10/2023 18:01

I’d love to learn Arabic. But that would be for personal interest.

I’ve tried mandarin but I just can’t do tonal languages. I don’t think it’s going to be all that useful for the future anyway, unless you want to be a spy and can pass for a native.

languages are useful if you want to access the country, literature or culture. If you don’t want to do any of that, they’re not that helpful.

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 18:09

KingsleyBorder · 21/10/2023 17:54

Ha ha, good point. Brazilian lyric writers are way more poetic than most Western pop writers though!

Sorry don’t know why I said “Western” there, Brazil is in the West and I didn’t mean Country & Western 🤦‍♀️. I guess I just meant English language !

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 18:10

@KingsleyBorder That is really interesting, thank you

OP posts:
Squeezita · 21/10/2023 18:19

I do speak Urdu/Hindi fluently, but I don’t understand how a few words would help unless you’re going there on holiday.

Sleepimpossible · 21/10/2023 18:21

I speak 4 European languages and would recommend Spanish if you'd like to feel you're making progress quickly. Of the four, I found it relatively easy to reach a pretty good conversational level. I also love the language and in my experience found that people in Spain are very encouraging of your attempts to speak their language. It's so useful too if you have plans to travel to South America. Loads of online material available at various levels also. I'm afraid I can't comment from a career perspective as that wasn't relevant for me.

LoreleiG · 21/10/2023 20:21

@magicmole retiring to France is when my degree will at long last become worthwhile, I hope 😄

BrakeLights · 21/10/2023 21:09

Caspianberg · 21/10/2023 07:16

They are only the most spoken as China and india have huge populations though. So they are most spoken only in those countries.

You are better off with German or Spanish from a business and travel perspective

That's a very outdated view. China and India are much bigger markets and you are more likely to encounter them professionally (including in the UK) than someone German or Spanish speaking. However, though I'm not sure about Mandarin most Indians that you'll meet in a business related function will be able to speak English. It's the same with German. Most Germans speak fluent English so unless you plan on living in Germany I don't think it's that useful. Spanish would be more useful.

I'm a native German speaker, living in the UK, and apart from speaking to family I almost never get an opportunity to speak German neither socially nor professionally. I can think of lots of instances though very Hindi or mandarin would have come in useful, again both professionally and in informal settings though it also depends on your field of course.

Caspianberg · 22/10/2023 05:30

@BrakeLights - you can see on my previous message, I do live and work in a German speaking country, and very very few people here speak English. I couldn’t live here without Speaking German. Maybe city is different but it’s about 5% of people locally who speak English.

GrumpyInsomniac · 22/10/2023 06:34

I’ve always had a brain that was wired for languages, so studied French and German to degree level, did Russian at GCSE, a couple of years of Latin at school, and cobbled together some Italian and Spanish for holidays. Because of that I can read many European languages well enough to get the gist without bunging them through DeepL. And I’ve found it useful professionally and personally because even where other people do speak English, they always appreciate an effort to speak their own language. It’s seen as good manners when so many UK and US English speakers are arrogant enough to assume they don’t need to bother.

I use both French and German for work, and it has definitely given me opportunities I wouldn’t have had without this fluency.

I started learning Japanese for work, because I was working for a Japanese company and most of the team out there don’t speak English. Turns out that’s not so uncommon in Japan, where the statistics on English speaking are very different to those in Europe and other parts of the world. Even as someone who is a natural at languages, Japanese is so very different to European languages that it even puts learning 48 adjective endings for Russian into perspective. Learning Cyrillic was a lot easier than picking up both hiragana and katakana, alongside kanji.

I’m not sure it’s as useful to learn Mandarin or Hindi as it is to learn a language you can commit to and learn for the love of it, knowing you’ll have the opportunity to speak it and maintain it. Especially if languages aren’t really your thing. I look at my husband, who relies on me whenever we’re abroad, and my son, who takes after his dad on languages, and I think either of them could learn maybe one other language well if they had the chance to use it regularly in everyday life, but not otherwise. Hindi and Mandarin would likely be beyond them, but a European language that they might get to use? Still better than no language learning at all.

I have a long way to go before I’ll have mastered Japanese, but I will keep going with it. In my fifties now, so not sure whether I’ll be adding any other languages to the repertoire, or just deepening my knowledge of other European languages. I’m tempted by Mandarin, Arabic and Korean, but I want to get better at Japanese before muddying the waters with another one. At least with Mandarin, I have the crossover of kanji from Japanese, so there is some knowledge I can reuse.

Finally, as far as apps are concerned, I use Busuu rather than DuoLingo, because it goes deeper into the grammar, and I still find that essential for learning a language versus parroting a few phrases. I find it a good support alongside the lessons I do with my Japanese teacher because it’s more up to date on vocabulary than the traditional Minna No Nihongo textbook. But I have also found watching Japanese TikTokers on lives has been a good way of getting my ear in. So
many more tools available to help these days :)

babysharkdoodoodedoodedoo · 22/10/2023 06:47

I am studying mandarin but I live in Asia and visit China often. It’s very difficult and no, I wouldn’t say that it’s necessary for someone living in the UK and not planning to travel or not needing to do business with Chinese people for example. It’s very time consuming. My husband is Indian and we live there for part of the year. I don’t think learning Hindi can be described as ‘necessary’ due to the fact that 1) English is one of the National languages of India and 2) in a lot of states (such as my husbands) they have their own language and don’t even speak Hindi but only communicate in their own language or English. I think people can learn a language should they wish to or should it be useful or necessary for them but it’s a big task and a lot of people just don’t have time. There’s no ‘should’ about it - it all depends on personal situations and preferences.

DiddlySquatted · 22/10/2023 07:02

Mandarin and Hindi ?. You have unrealistic expectations unless you have a natural ability with languages.

I speak fluent French. My mother is from Nice and I lived there until I was in my early teens so it always makes me laugh when I hear English people, who pride themselves on their French, speaking like Arthur Bostrom from Ello Ello.

JupiterJan · 22/10/2023 07:10

DiddlySquatted · 22/10/2023 07:02

Mandarin and Hindi ?. You have unrealistic expectations unless you have a natural ability with languages.

I speak fluent French. My mother is from Nice and I lived there until I was in my early teens so it always makes me laugh when I hear English people, who pride themselves on their French, speaking like Arthur Bostrom from Ello Ello.

why do you laugh? I don't laugh if someone is struggling to pronouce lone of my languages? Surely it is for communication, and if they are communicating, then its all good.

I try to say a few words in the language of any of my students who are at an early stage of English - I don't care how I sound to them. I just want them to know it is OK to muddle through the best they can, and if I sound bad, they are going to care less if they think they sound bad to me

Laughing is nasty

OP posts:
DiddlySquatted · 22/10/2023 07:20

JupiterJan · 22/10/2023 07:10

why do you laugh? I don't laugh if someone is struggling to pronouce lone of my languages? Surely it is for communication, and if they are communicating, then its all good.

I try to say a few words in the language of any of my students who are at an early stage of English - I don't care how I sound to them. I just want them to know it is OK to muddle through the best they can, and if I sound bad, they are going to care less if they think they sound bad to me

Laughing is nasty

You didn’t find Ello Ello funny then ?. And there’s a big difference between foreign students struggling with English and people arrogantly boasting they speak a language when they can’t.

Normalsizedsalad · 22/10/2023 07:22

I think the important part in pp's post is the "pride themselves in". I met people who very arrogantly and with attitude announce "well of course I am fluent in x" and then it turns out they are intermediate at push. I don't laugh, I eyeroll though. Dh had "oh you speak x? I learned x it's not that hard for speakimg part!" with someone in his language. He just looked at me after and said it was just gibberish....
Luckily there are not that many around and absolute majority people are self aware about their language skills, not arrogant.

DiddlySquatted · 22/10/2023 07:28

Normalsizedsalad · 22/10/2023 07:22

I think the important part in pp's post is the "pride themselves in". I met people who very arrogantly and with attitude announce "well of course I am fluent in x" and then it turns out they are intermediate at push. I don't laugh, I eyeroll though. Dh had "oh you speak x? I learned x it's not that hard for speakimg part!" with someone in his language. He just looked at me after and said it was just gibberish....
Luckily there are not that many around and absolute majority people are self aware about their language skills, not arrogant.

I work for a French company in London and I get it all the time. I have to apologise to French colleagues.

Loulou599 · 22/10/2023 07:50

@DiddlySquatted
I'm French and find you quite embarrassing

effylump · 22/10/2023 08:09

To some extent, it really does not matter which language we learn. The Internet can give us opportunities to learn, practice and communicate in many different languages. I am finding the experience of language learning in a much more multi-modal world, very different from the experience of learning nearly fifty years ago.

It is also really interesting to learn something about how language is used in a particular culture e.g. in terms of greetings, terms of address, how prepositions are used, how pronouns are used, because learning this can show us slightly different ways of interpreting the social world.

For me, language learning is hard, simply because I have to make the time to do it. Yet yesterday, I managed to read most of a text that was at a level just above the level at which I am working. I felt a real sense of achievement.

Whilst there are many practical reasons for learning another language, the intrinsic and personal benefits also should not be underestimated.