Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you how absolutely amazing my DDs Rainbows and Brownies Leaders are because they give her chances no-one else will?

95 replies

LoveTheLeadersAndVolunteers · 17/10/2023 21:12

DD is 9, school year 5.

She has Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and Dyspraxia.

She wasn’t able to do the 2-night Year 4 residential as school felt she wouldn’t cope. She’s been told she can’t do the 3-night Year 5 one and will most likely not do the week-long Year 6 one. It’s so sad for her. In year 4 she literally watched the other 89 Year 4s and the teachers get on a bus for 3 days. She doesn’t have the memories of midnight feats or when Mrs X burnt the toast because she wasn’t there.

She joined Rainbows aged 6 and has never looked back.

She’s done 1- and 2-night sleepovers and is doing her first holiday in half term for 3 nights. She is so excited.

When the letters came out, I was expecting it to be a no like school. I’d prepared her that she may not be able to go, but promised I’d ask. But it never was no. Sometimes it was “Can I learn more about her conditions first?” or “Tell me what would help her to be able to attend” but it was never no, or maybe, it was always “We’d like her to come”.

The leaders have done so much to help her. They let her get there early to choose her bed, they let her take her weighted blanket to help with pain, they give her Calpol when needed. They cook food that won’t hurt her mouth as when she’s really bad she can blister her mouth easily. They never force her to do activities if she’s in pain/tired/doesn’t feel comfortable. They let her take her sticks so she can walk. They have even for the next one found a room on the ground floor for her and her six to share so she doesn’t have to climb stairs.

They have pushed her out of her comfort zone. And I cannot thank them enough. Since joining Rainbows not only has her confidence built, but she’s learnt so much about her conditions and that reflects so well in her personality.

I was so scared the first 1-night sleepover, worried she’d not cope or the leaders would say no to the next time, but she came back buzzing and the leaders gave her an award on the last meeting for being brave. She kept asking when she can go again. She has not stopped talking about her holiday since it was announced in June.

She has those memories now, of sneaking into the leader’s room to take their slippers, of running up and down the corridor giggling, of a camp fire and singing and all those lovely childhood memories that I just cannot recreate.

Brownies is her favourite time of the week and that’s down to her amazing leaders. I just love them. And I buy them Christmas presents and end of year presents like her teachers because I love these women. They voluntarily take the girls away, they leave their own children and grandchildren at home to take my child away and that’s amazing.

Sorry I think I’m going on. I just will not hear a bad thing about them! Probably UR to put it here though

OP posts:
AnySoln · 17/10/2023 23:28

I do think knowing the activities and menu are basic minimum activity places should be telling parents though.
And ensuring they watch kids who they know struggle with it put on lotion. As i expect dd is the only kid of the clases to actively not do it even if told.
They-school didnt ask me for any info.
I think our school successfully convinced several parents to drive kids there on the day.

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 18/10/2023 04:53

How absolutely wonderful.
I was a Cub leader (now Explorers) and it can be a thankless task at t

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 18/10/2023 04:57

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 18/10/2023 04:53

How absolutely wonderful.
I was a Cub leader (now Explorers) and it can be a thankless task at t

Posted too soon accidentally!

... thankless task at times.

Does your local paper/local authority run a "volunteer of the year"? Many do. It might be worth popping in a nomination.

youveturnedupwelldone · 18/10/2023 05:41

That is so lovely, totally made me well up. I'm so glad for your daughter (and you!) that she experiencing not just all those wonderful things but also that she's learning there are people out there who will do exactly what they should and find ways to include her.

I'm sure the school have their reasons but what a lesson to teach such a young child - having to learn that you will be excluded if it suits others. Your description of how they handle it and won't make accommodations is disgraceful. What have they said about making reasonable adjustments?

We have also had amazing rainbows, brownies and now guides leaders!

itsgettingweird · 18/10/2023 06:24

LoveTheLeadersAndVolunteers · 17/10/2023 21:31

School do cater for her on general day trips, but they say the residential are optional so they don't have to. They make all the right noises and i've pointed out Brownies and Rainbows have managed it, and they say they see what they can do but then say it's too expensive/not doable/the centre won't provide it.

Agree your brownies group sound marvellous.

Next time school do residential visit the place yourself or call them. Speak direct to them about RA that can be made.

School residential places are well versed in visiting pupils with all sorts of needs. I bet they can make the adjustments and it would be great to have the onside to tell the school.

Who I agree sound dreadful btw.

itsgettingweird · 18/10/2023 06:26

Fwiw I visited ds residential place with school with him beforehand and it was all sorted. The activities he genuinely couldn't do (not all disabilities can be overcome through RA) he helped to organise.

LoveTheLeadersAndVolunteers · 18/10/2023 11:08

AnySoln · 17/10/2023 23:23

Whilst its great the brownies do this ...
It does sound like some of your requests are maybe over the top. Unless severe issues a child would understand not to eat hot pies or cut them up. That doesnt sound like my understanding of dyspraxia. And if not surely a reminder before she left for a trip.
The shoes could be labelled and insoles with something else but again a label should be enough if it matches on both. Im sure school could help as they would if a child couldnt tie laces.
I would just send own snacks!
Not really relevant but seems more like you are describing academically behind? Or other issues (asd is common with EDS)
They should be able to do the calpol - our school had a whole box of meds.
And they should work it so any child can sit out an activity.

Though if she struggles with an upstairs room im surprised an activity centre generally is something she wants to do. So not surprised they are skeptical as in say she cant get up/downstairs but wants to rock climb. (Though understand reality is different).
Does she use a lift at school/when she goes to secondary?

I would focus on what is actually a need.

So she wants to stay overnight?

Get extra insoles? If not too expensive.

Unfortunately our experience with sen and guiding was even worse than issues with school. The leader asked her to leave once they knew she had sen.

My dd is having asd assessments- and school were refusing to take her on the y6 residential. God knows what they thought the issue was going to be - i think maybe a refusal by dd. Ironic really as the wouldnt support assessment or ehcp. If they had we wouldnt have been in that position at y6.
She went and was ok - better than behaviour of several other kids. Did refuse one activity as exhaused/didnt want to get wet.
School didnt get her to put any suntan lotion on day 2 which was like 30degrees.

She then went on scouts and they were better but again she didnt put lotion on. She also didnt sleep till 3am.

@AnySoln No autism, just what I said.

And I get that sometimes she won't be able to do things, I tell her this. I don't ask.

Academically she is around about where she should be, but has periods where falls behind due to slow processing. She has an EHCP to help with this, but school say she doesn't need it so that can be a struggle. She's starting to fall behind now again.

School won't do calpol, not even during the school day unless it's prescribed 5 or more times a day, it's in her EHCP but they refuse to give it so I have to go into school at lunchtime when she's struggling - they do at least call me to ask me to go in though.

Insoles are medically prescribed, it's not just a case of asking for a second pair because they're made by the NHS, DD is only entitled to so many pairs per year and that doesn't give us wiggle room for a spare set due to her growth. She's entitled to 4 pairs per year and usually uses that amount because even if her feet don't grow she needs more or less arch support, they need to be lighter or heavier, they need to slightly longer or shorter depending on her need at the time.

I've offered to pay for an extra set but apparently there isn't that option because of making them, they already take 8 weeks to be made and then we have to go for checking with the podiatrist, a few times they've then had to be adjusted and we've waited even longer for them.

Though if she struggles with an upstairs room im surprised an activity centre generally is something she wants to do

She doesn't struggle with stairs, we live in a house and have stairs, it was suggestion made by the Leaders of her Brownies who were concerned about supervising her on the stairs as they feel she's wobbly on them. Climbing on a wall/rocks can be difficult for DD, but she can do it and it is a very good exercise for her, her physio literally recommends we go during every holiday from school.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 18/10/2023 11:12

She wears insoles in her shoes and Brownies help her to move them between them. School won't help her so they end up in the wrong shoes (because even with L and R on them her dyspraxia means she gets confused)

This may be something you have discounted, but would a blob of colour (eg sharpie or paint) on the insole and inside the shoes help? e.g. yellow for left and red for right? Then she only needs to colour match not think about the letters.

TeenDivided · 18/10/2023 11:19

TeenDivided · 18/10/2023 11:12

She wears insoles in her shoes and Brownies help her to move them between them. School won't help her so they end up in the wrong shoes (because even with L and R on them her dyspraxia means she gets confused)

This may be something you have discounted, but would a blob of colour (eg sharpie or paint) on the insole and inside the shoes help? e.g. yellow for left and red for right? Then she only needs to colour match not think about the letters.

Or the traditional smiley face half in each foot and when the right way round make the face?

CoffeeWithCheese · 18/10/2023 11:27

She sounds like DD2 (same sort of age - dyspraxia, autism, hypotonia and waiting for ADHD assessment) but school have always made sure she's included in everything - including their residentials - she's been away for two with the school (would have had an extra one but it was cancelled because of lockdowns) so far.

Rainbows and Brownies didn't work out for us - local group couldn't cope with her elder sister so we moved across to Scouting, but she's been on camps with the Beavers, Cubs and is about to move to Scouts soon. Slept over at the Space Centre a few weeks ago (DH was ridiculously jealous).

Yes, she loses half her belongings around the site and we do laps to retrieve everything, yes she's absolutely filthy dirty when she comes home as she can find any spot of mud and fall over in it, yes she's knackered, pant changing has been questionable and there are things that she can't access fully - but she's encouraged to give things a go and the leaders redirect her if it's something she's struggled with - she also loves helping the younger kids so they quite often let her do that if she chooses. It's really been the making of her when she struggles socially in school so much.

We have never yet managed to resolve the left and right shoe thing (and believe me I have tried every trick in the book - she just does not feel that they're on wrong) - mind you, since she came out of school having forgotten her shoes on a few occasions - we tend to view them making it onto feet as the victory. Still no idea how the hell she walked from the classroom, across a bumpy playground and didn't twig that things felt a little bit different.

Outnumbered99 · 18/10/2023 11:31

Can I let you in to a secret.... as a retired Brownie helper, we love the residentials as much as the children do! I am so happy to read this post, this is exactly the sort of thing these organisations are about. What wonderful experiences for your daughter, im so pleased

OllieCollieWoo · 18/10/2023 11:31

We had a similar experience. Primary school put in barriers for my DS to attend days out, residential.
But Beavers and Cubs went all out to include him.

camperjam · 18/10/2023 11:37

Lovely post, that's brought tear to my eyes

elliejjtiny · 18/10/2023 11:39

That's so lovely. I have EDS and dyspraxia too. I have DC with disabilities and I find that "mainstream" after school activities want me to stay which my dc2 in particular has always found very embarrassing. So we stick to the groups for disabled children.

Mouseplant · 18/10/2023 11:39

Brownies 'let' her use sticks?

She's disabled, she doesn't need permission. I get it, advocating for your disabled child is exhausting - but school is discriminating if they stop her using sticks.

FrenchandSaunders · 18/10/2023 11:41

This is brilliant OP, and all voluntary! School should have tried harder to include her IMO.

LittleMissLife · 18/10/2023 11:42

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this. Thank you for sharing. I'm a Rainbow & Brownie volunteer leader. It's so lovely to know what a positive impact Guiding is having for you & your DD 💕

LoveTheLeadersAndVolunteers · 18/10/2023 11:44

Mouseplant · 18/10/2023 11:39

Brownies 'let' her use sticks?

She's disabled, she doesn't need permission. I get it, advocating for your disabled child is exhausting - but school is discriminating if they stop her using sticks.

@Mouseplant i don't see it as "letting" her use them, they let her take them, they find somewhere for them, they adapt the programme of activities so she can have them nearby or sit out. They never ever stop her using them if she needs them. DD will say herself "Brownies let me take my sticks"

School won't stop her again but they do but barriers up, so sticks can't be nearby, they have to be in the corner or against a wall, they can't guarentee enough space behind her chair for her to be able to reach them etc.

OP posts:
JMSA · 18/10/2023 11:47

Amazing! So, so lovely. These are memories she'll never forget.
I'd maybe ask her to knock the slipper stealing on the head though! Smile

GuidingSpirit · 18/10/2023 11:48

Hi @LoveTheLeadersAndVolunteers as a rainbow and brownie leader, this is so lovely to read! 😊

Please consider sending this to the district or county commissioner for your area - they would love to hear about it. If you dont know who that is, feel free to PM me your area and i can find you an email address.

There are also awards that you could nominate the leaders for: https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/managing-your-team/awards-and-recognition/hero-award/

Hero award

Show your appreciation of members and friends with this award

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/managing-your-team/awards-and-recognition/hero-award

LittleOwl153 · 18/10/2023 12:03

I have a teen with EDS and dyspraxia... and the slow processing to me sounds like dyslexia (no it is not all about being able to read my dyslexic is a prolific reader!)

I'm going to echo everyone here and say school are rubbish. The response to the pp about her sticks is appallingly poor behaviour on their part.

I'm also a school SEN governor ... every school is required to have one ... I'd take a very poor view of any school who excluded like this - and they'd know about it.

Final thought - have you tried speaking to the centre where they are going directly. I find these places are often very good at dealing with disabled children and pride themselves on including them (sometimes despite the school!) They are brilliant at sorting food if it is a catered venue (nearly all school trips are) and will happily work with you there.

All this is coming across to me as lazy on the school part... not to knock the Rainbow/Brownie leaders... they are fabulous I know (dd has done R/B and is now a Guide!) And I absolutely suggest the award schemes pp listed!

LonelyFlans · 18/10/2023 12:20

This is so lovely to hear.

I have a similar experience with our local scout group.

Son has had a lot of difficulties and we've had to fight hard to have these recognised, assessed and get help for him.

After a few weeks at beavers, the leader took me to one side and said she'd noticed some of his difficulties (& some other kids being negative towards him), she'd dealt with it at the time (& would continue to do so) and wondered if we'd be ok with her bringing in someone to talk about "all the ways we can be different from one another" to reinforce the message.

It was the first time that someone had offered to do something to support/help him without us fighting for it.

These voluntary group leaders are worth their weight in gold.

AnySoln · 18/10/2023 13:51

Lonelyflans - exactly the same, if schools could be more like scouting. They actually passed the info on. Secondary school teachers otoh had no info and didnt realise in music that it would be an issue. Also had a warning in a lesson where it was clearly due to sen/bad management by school dept.

Op- thats awful by the school! With an ehcp!
Maybe email saying you cannot see any reason dd cant go, she has been to xyz before and similar activities. If they have any specific concerns they need to let you know

potatoheads · 18/10/2023 17:09

Not trying to be jean but I wonder if you might be a little too demanding of the school. I do understand your dd has needs but some of the things you have mentioned are possibly things you and she could manage rather than expect the school to. Schools do what they can but are stretched.

.....She needs a special harness if they do climbing which Rainbows/Brownies ask me to pay a bit extra for but source it themselves, school say it's to expensive to hire (Brownies have only ever charged me £5-10 for it).
Can you source the harness? It's no doubt adjustable so it would probably last her for years. Maybe ask Brownies where they get them from.

She can't ride a bike or scooter, Brownies change her activity for that day/time, school say the whole year group do it together so she does it or not.
If the school trips are structured so everyone does the activity together how do you expect them to change for one child? That's not reasonable. Brownies May structure things in small groups but the school obviously doesn't. There is reasonable and unreasonable adjustment. Expecting the entire program to be reformed so it's small groups doing different things at the same time is just not reasonable. Surely you see that?

She wears insoles in her shoes and Brownies help her to move them between them. School won't help her so they end up in the wrong shoes (because even with L and R on them her dyspraxia means she gets confused)
Colour code them. Put coloured stickers. Red on left shoe and insole. Green on right. It's not rocket science. Make it easier for the school to manage. And tbh make it easier for your dd to be independent. This one is ridiculous. Sorry.

School won't give Calpol, Brownies do. School won't let me see the menu before she goes, surely they have children with dietary requirements. Allergies. Intolerances. Religious requirements. This one is something I'd push on. Brownies go through it with DD and help find alternatives, I am always happy to pay for these but it's never been an issue with Brownies - we're talking no hard crunchies foods like crisps, raw carrot, hard sweets. She also can't eat anything that may be really hot in the middle but cool outside like pies as she always burns her mouth. This is something you need to teach your dd. She needs to be more independent. I know very very small children who know not to eat certain foods. She can be taught to break up her food and let it cool. Brownies source her an alternative snacks, or hers is plated first and left to cool down. School say they can't do that because theres 89 other children to think of.I fear you are infantilising your daughter. Many of the things you expect the school to manage are things you should have taught her to manage. Perhaps you are overwhelmed and panic. I'm not sure but you need to lead in this. Your dd has a life long condition. It is imperative that she learns to be as independent as possible.

Hankunamatata · 18/10/2023 17:17

I'd be pushing for better ehcp with 1:1 assistance for medical reasons. They then can give her calpol, adapt thongs to her needs - it would literally be her assistants job to do these things for her