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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked that Australia voted NO on this referendum?

412 replies

koalaknickers · 16/10/2023 08:35

"The Voice to Parliament was proposed in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, a 2017 document crafted by Indigenous leaders that set out a roadmap for reconciliation with wider Australia.

Australia's Indigenous citizens, who make up 3.8% of the country's 26 million population, have inhabited the land for about 60,000 years but are not mentioned in the constitution and are, by most socio-economic measures, the most disadvantaged people in the country."

Australia rejects Indigenous referendum in setback for reconciliation (msn.com)

I have family out there. I just assumed that they would have voted YES. I hope they did. Perhaps I should ask them.

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-rejects-indigenous-referendum-in-setback-for-reconciliation/ar-AA1icZn2

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Iwantcakeeveryday · 18/10/2023 10:19

The other element that is going to be very concerning to many is the institutionalization of ethnicity as defining how much, or what kind of influence, people have on government policy. That's a pretty direct over-turning of the principles western democracies have worked under. The same principles, by the way, that said that actually, it was illegitimate to restrict voting by racial group.

Is this meant to be a joke?

Bubblesoffun · 18/10/2023 10:40

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 09:56

Thank you so much for your answer.

There are definitely good questions raised. I see it's not as simple as painted.

As a Scottish person with the IndyRef (I voted no) I feel that campaign was a mess with no clear picture of the way forward.

It is a shame that the campaign was so unclear, but I can see now (and after reading all the other posts) that there was a lot of confusion and "look it up" isn't really an effective campaign.

Why do you think the government didn't let you in to explain everything? Incompetence or something more sinister? What are your feelings about this?

If yes had gone through how do you think things would have played out?

Sorry for all the questions. I feel like I am interrogating you!

Honestly I don’t know how it would have played out if it had gone through. I don’t believe it was anything sinister and I believe Albo (nickname for our PM) did have his heart in the right place and does care about Indigenous issues. However politics in Australia is very driven along party lines, and neither party was really going to work together to have bipartisan support. I think the whole thing was poorly advised and run.
I also don’t know and very much doubt that we will ever know why there was so much secrecy around how it would all work. And this is all part of the reason why so many people decided to vote no. That is one of the most frustrating things if they had just explained it better then the results may have been vastly different.
I think you’ll also find that most Australians also do care about our Indigenous brothers and sisters however the people who shout loudest are the ones who get heard ergo the sentiment that we are all racist here. it’s easy to see racism in others but not so in yourselves.

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 10:47

Bubblesoffun · 18/10/2023 10:40

Honestly I don’t know how it would have played out if it had gone through. I don’t believe it was anything sinister and I believe Albo (nickname for our PM) did have his heart in the right place and does care about Indigenous issues. However politics in Australia is very driven along party lines, and neither party was really going to work together to have bipartisan support. I think the whole thing was poorly advised and run.
I also don’t know and very much doubt that we will ever know why there was so much secrecy around how it would all work. And this is all part of the reason why so many people decided to vote no. That is one of the most frustrating things if they had just explained it better then the results may have been vastly different.
I think you’ll also find that most Australians also do care about our Indigenous brothers and sisters however the people who shout loudest are the ones who get heard ergo the sentiment that we are all racist here. it’s easy to see racism in others but not so in yourselves.

Thank you for such a full answer. I get what you are saying. It's such a massive mess, and as you say, frustrating.

It's a very emotive subject. I recently read a survey where the Indigenous peoples were saying they felt incidents of racism had actually gone up during/after COVID.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the greater part of the Australian population are not racist.

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PottedPlantsObsess · 18/10/2023 10:53

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 08:41

I have read every single post and I am happy that so many people have weighed in and explained so much of the nuance to this. I am not ignoring it.

What can/should happen next to help the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, do you think?

White people getting rid of the notion that they need to “help them” this is what got us into this mess in the first place.

respected Aboriginal leaders have already said what they need.

voice, treaty, truth - the argument that the Uluṟu statement of the heart does not represent all Aboriginal views, is correct, but defunct. No leader speaks for everyone but voice treaty truth is a bloody good place to start.

unfortunately a 97% non indigenous population voted no to the first aspect of a voice.

where to from here indeed …..

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 10:59

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 10:47

Thank you for such a full answer. I get what you are saying. It's such a massive mess, and as you say, frustrating.

It's a very emotive subject. I recently read a survey where the Indigenous peoples were saying they felt incidents of racism had actually gone up during/after COVID.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the greater part of the Australian population are not racist.

Argh! My last sentence doesn't right correctly and too late to edit. Or does it read correctly? I'm not sure! Lack of sleep and a little toothache isn't helping!

I meant to say that I would like to think that the greater part of the Australian population is not racist.

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PottedPlantsObsess · 18/10/2023 11:02

DifficultBloodyWoman · 17/10/2023 22:15

This is an excellent but undermentioned point. The Australian Capital Territory was the only one of the states and territories to vote yes. Talk about the ‘Canberra Bubble’!

For those that don’t know, that is like the UK asking the referendum question - do you support the formation of a group to advise government of policy made up only of people who can trace their ancestry back to the Domesday Book? Yes or No.

And the only constituency to vote ‘yes’ is Islington.

Canberra has a well educated and well paid population primarily employed by the public sector. If a referendum was held on the subject ‘Is Canberra representative of Australia as a whole’, I think we can guarantee another no vote.

It’s absolutely nothing like that.
the people in the domesday book weren’t subject to almost extermination and devalued to a subhuman level until some time in living memory.

also they very likely would not make up less than 4% of the population

SerendipityJane · 18/10/2023 11:04

It’s absolutely nothing like that.
the people in the Domesday book weren’t subject to almost extermination and devalued to a subhuman level until some time in living memory.

It's like the Harrying of the north never happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrying_of_the_North

Harrying of the North - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrying_of_the_North

PottedPlantsObsess · 18/10/2023 11:16

Mmm you’re right. White people of the same sociological culture, similar language fighting a war 1000 years ago; with the same tools is exactly the same as a completely different race of people arriving approx 250 years ago and systematically exterminating people of colour using technological and chemical weapons, and then creating a whole political and social system based on such. My best friends mother was taken from her family as a toddler because she was half black and raised in an orphanage. She never found her family. Do your harried north have the same living memory?

sashh · 18/10/2023 12:13

koalaknickers · 18/10/2023 08:41

I have read every single post and I am happy that so many people have weighed in and explained so much of the nuance to this. I am not ignoring it.

What can/should happen next to help the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, do you think?

Maybe someone should ask them? And not as one homogenous group

toomanyseasonsinoneday · 18/10/2023 22:29

ALittleTeawithmilk · 17/10/2023 03:13

Some misinformation here corrected.

All Australians are entitled to free health care.

All school kids are entitled to free dental care. After that, dental care is means tested. (If you want free health care as an adult (its means tested), then lobby your govt. fight for it: just don’t say ‘it’s not fair, they get all the benefits I do not’ , someone fought for any benefits Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders get and believe me, they aren’t enough. We pay high taxes, insist your govt stop throwing money away on companies like ‘ Price Waterhouse consultancy’ and reinvest in your public service.

If you are a non Aboriginal Australian with school age kids you can access dental care for them. Some parents know that, many are unaware. Usually the parents who know this have had Dept of Health mobile dental services come to their kids’ schools. Many schools don’t have the mobile dental services come around, but you can access the free service.

Ring the Department of Health Dental services (it may have a different name now, as it’s been a while since I accessed it for my kids a few times when I was broke. And I only found out about them because a parent from another school told me about the free dental. WHAT? I said’ FREE DENTAL - WHAAAT? When I had had some money again, I found it easier, more convenient, to access my local dentist that I paid for). The mobile dental van with its free dental services is coming to my grandchild’s school next month so free dental is still available for children. Insist on it.

Demand better of your govt. & be better informed. Always ask about your rights. It’s something Australians generally tend not to do as we aren’t encouraged to. (Australia wash colonised as a penal colony and that thinking then, that a convict had few rights, has filtered down somewhat inter- generationally Be aware, every single govt representative of yours, both federal and state, knows their rights.

First Nations people do get preference for Educational Systems.. How does it work? One example: In my understanding: eg Two students get 50% in their final exams. Both barely scrapped by, and there’s University One place left. One is an Aboriginal teenager, another is not. The University will take the Aboriginal teenager and not the non Aboriginal teenager. Why so? Because there’s recognition that it’s more likely it’s taken a lot more effort for an Aboriginal Teenager to get that far. They face so many roadblocks. (eg a court is much more likely to sentence an Aboriginal child to a custodial sentence than a white child - for exactly the same crime). But, its not to say the non Aboriginal teenager in the example did not face roadblocks, but that generally, in our society, an Aboriginal teenager is likely to face more roadblocks than a Non Aboriginal teenager. It’s not a perfect solution. It’s up to you to demand better from your govts. Voting every 3 or 4 years helps, but becoming activists in your own lives helps that much more. If nothing else, if something unfair pisses you off,!write an email and send it to your MP and every relevant MP. One of the shiftiest shock jocks ever - Alan Jones - used to do that because, it works. Enough letters on the same topic and the MPs stop ignoring you and others. Don’t be put off by those pithy non answer emails they send back in reply. Write again and Organise people to write. Ring their offices, let them know. Find out when your representatives are in their offices and make an appointment to see them. They work for you.

A Pp poster is right - The book is called ‘Dark Emu’ and not ‘emu rising’ but I always mistakenly call it that. Might be the ‘rising’ bit and a connection to the phrase ‘phoenix rising’ some Aboriginal people do question his Aboriginality, some do not. At any rate his research is good.

There is a documentary on Netflix - it was on our ABC but I think it may have moved to Netflix - called ‘in my blood it runs’ about a 10 year old Aboriginal child growing up in Alice Springs. He’s a great kid but goes perilously close to running off the tracks despite a loving, but impoverished, family. He triumphs but over the course of a couple of years the documentary is filmed over, you start to see all the roadblocks faced by Aboriginal children and their parents.

Not to say many white people people don’t face roadblocks. But for Black , and many Brown and Asian people too, the very colour of their skin is a roadblock in our society. Preconceptions abound. Preconceptions abound for poor people, single parent families, disabled people, abused women and their kids, and so on.

Recognise though, that that Original People, the First Australians, are the ones whose lands were colonised. We to come here or most of our ancestors wanted to come here. First Nations People - they are owed a chance to improve their lives. They are owed a debt. (Despite the popular bullshit, theybaren’t asking for handouts.). On average, First Nations people are still living at levels of Great Depression Era Poverty. And they are amongst the most roadblocked people in the world. We should not get to take nearly everything of theirs and then say ‘okay, now we are all equal.’

Hi @ALittleTeawithmilk I'm not sure which State you are in but in Victoria only some Victorians are eligible for public dental -

  • all children aged 0–12 years
  • young people aged 13–17 years who hold a healthcare or pensioner concession card, or who are dependants of concession card holders
  • people aged 18 years and over, who are health care or pensioner concession card holders or dependants of concession card holders
  • all children and young people in out-of-home care provided by the Department of Families, Fairness and Housing (DFFH), up to 18 years of age (including kinship and foster care)
  • all people in youth justice custodial care
  • all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
  • all refugees and asylum seekers.

And the following people have priority access to public dental services:

  • Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
  • children and young people
  • people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness
  • pregnant women
  • refugees and asylum seekers
  • people registered with mental health or disability services, who have a letter of recommendation from their case manager or a special developmental school.

Victorians can also access dental services through the Australian Government's Child Dental Benefits Schedule. The schedule started on 1 January 2014. It provides up to $1,052 in dental benefits over 2 years for children aged from 0 to 17 years in families that are:

  • eligible for Medicare; and
  • receive an eligible Australian government payment.

Victoria has now implemented Smile Squad which is the Victorian Governments free school dental program. The dental van will visit schools but it is only for public schools only (63% of students in Victoria, but that still leaves 37% ineligible for this service). I have children in both public and secondary schools and the van hasn't visited either of their schools yet.

Again in Victoria, finding a bulk billing GP is more challenging, with only 35% of GPs now bulk billed (April 2023 statistics). My GP will bulk bill patients under 12 years, over 65 with valid Healthcare or Pension card, Veteran Affairs Cards, Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. Otherwise there is an out of pocket cost of $41 (minimum).

I have also noticed that all other allied health professional services costs have increased. I had a chronic health plan that up until recently provided 5 bulk billed sessions (in my case physio). There is now an out of pocket cost of $70.

Eye sight tests are free at SpecSavers, you can get a free hearing tests and mammograms too for everyone. Pregnancy scans incur a fee (few hundred) which I don't necessarily agree with. Not sure if ATSI people get a discount or free pregnancy scans but I believe they are assigned a dedicated Aboriginal Services Midwife.

But you are correct, all Australians are entitled to free health care (public hospitals) and, in my opinion, the service is very good. I love that I can get an appointment very quickly and that works with my schedule, even though there is more frequently an out of pocket cost.

I would personally prefer a unified approach to many things, including health care, from all of the States.

koalaknickers · 19/10/2023 08:20

sashh · 18/10/2023 12:13

Maybe someone should ask them? And not as one homogenous group

Yes!

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