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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

11+ and creative writing

32 replies

dandelionsticks · 14/10/2023 10:30

Has anyone been in situation where their child is terrible at creative writing and has still passed the 11+? We are worried our child won't get any offers, including from the safety school, because his creative writing is so poor. He consistently scores very, very low which takes his entire average down.

He's an avid reader yet it doesn't translate to his writing. We do everything teachers have suggested we do over the years. We read with him to check his comprehension. He has a Descriptisaurus and multiple fun books/flashcards to help expand his vocabulary. He has attended creative writing workshops (which he's enjoyed but his writing doesn't improve) and enlisted the help of tutors (they remain stumped on how to help him). He understands what good writing needs to include but, even with a checklist, he won't bother including any of it. SPAG goes out the window (as he'll rush to get it over with) and he will write a few sentences along the lines of "The boy did this. Then he did that. Then this happened.". To the extent he manages to include adjectives, they don't make any sense whatsoever. E.g. an apple will be a blue, fluffy apple rather than a round, green apple. We simply don't get it. Basic spelling (of v off, where v were) will be wrong though he will easily correct them afterwards. At the time of writing, he simple doesn't care enough to use the right one.

With the 11+ a few weeks away, we're not confident at all that he'll get anything. Not even his safety school which we're not even that keen on. State schools aren't an option as we don't qualify for any of those closest to us as we don't meet the religious criteria.

Thing is, he's a bright lad. His CAT score is high (e.g. 136 for Maths). In terms of cognitive ability, it's there. But he simply won't apply what he's been taught in creative writing. He understands why it's important but, if we practice at home, he has a meltdown and will cry and refuse to have a go. Even with simple 10 min writing exercises where we write together. He has ADHD but we don't think this fully explains how terrible he is at creative writing or the lack of willingness to even have a go. The teachers keep saying he needs to find his motivation but they've been saying this since Year 1 and now the 11+ is round the corner.

Off loading here as we are now despairing. We are already struggling to put in the work around both parents working full time and a busy school day and activities. We want to retain a balance where he isn't just studying. So on top of not feeling like we're doing enough, we feel quite overwhelmed now that his creative writing hasn't improved one bit in the last two years. He's just had mock exams and he only wrote a few sentences in 30 minutes. They said they couldn't award him many marks because there wasn't much on the paper as he'd only bothered to write one paragraph.

Does anyone know if it's possible to get 11+ offers even if a student scores terribly in creative writing? I know it's common for boys to do less well in this area. Unfortunately, he's consistently inconsistent so we can't rely on him scoring high enough in the other areas to raise his overall average. Feeling quite overwhelmed right now.

OP posts:
Squiblet · 14/10/2023 10:54

Tricky. Have you tried retelling stories he already knows and likes? Sometimes that's easier for them than starting from scratch, like tracing over a drawing.

If he likes graphic novels or comics, you could ask him to write down in words the story of what's happening in a short comic. We used to do this with strips in the Phoenix magazine. Or Dog Man.

You could ask him to tell you a story out loud, while you write it down. Then you read it over together.

kannayya · 14/10/2023 11:00

I can't be any help , but want to say be brave and keep supporting him. Is he attending any tution? Put him away from all gadgets and TV. Get him to read nonverbal, news etc.

Issuefroth · 14/10/2023 11:03

Sorry this won’t help now but his description of apples is very creative on a Dr Seuss level

bigageap · 14/10/2023 11:05

Slightly confused by your description of offers? 11+ needs to be passed to even obtain offers. It’s a combined result so he would need to hit the pass mark whatever.
and everyone is entitled to a state school. Do you mean you just don’t want him going to a state school?

also does your child actually want to go to a grammar school? There’s no mention of how your poor child is feeling in all this

Flamingogirl08 · 14/10/2023 11:09

Jesus that's alot of pressure on the kid!

There must be a state school he can go to. All kids are entitled to a school!

ModeWeasel · 14/10/2023 11:16

Where are you based? Some selective schools (state and private) don’t have creative writing as part of their process.

IcyPenguin101 · 14/10/2023 11:33

I’m 2 years away from 11+ but it’s already keeping me up at night. I saw this at Flying Tiger - a storytelling game. I can’t say what it’s like as I’m planning to use it on the half term holidays when we are away as a travelling game but that might help with getting the juices flowing?

11+ and creative writing
PennyNotWise · 14/10/2023 12:16

What’s the worst case scenario here?

historyrepeatz · 14/10/2023 12:48

If the 11+ is now only a few weeks away take a step back. Make sure he has a proper break from it all. Rest, exercise and fresh air to aid good sleep. He's not going to perform his best if miserable. You might find a break helps him in all areas. My DS's writing wasn't good but he's there now with time and space.

If you post what area you are in people might be able to give more specific help as the 11+ is not the same everywhere. Where I am there is no creative writing. In the next borough it is only used as a tie break. You may also be able to get advice on schools.

There is also an eleven plus forum you can use for area specific advice.

Plenty of children don't pass this exam at 10/11 and go on to do very well or join a grammar for a levels if they wish.

coloursquare · 14/10/2023 12:59

Sounds like he'd flourish in a non-selective where he can play to his strengths and develop his creative writing at his own pace.

CurlewKate · 14/10/2023 13:32

There will be a school he can go to whatever happens. The LEA has an obligation to offer a place.

dandelionsticks · 14/10/2023 14:16

The 11+ isn't for grammar school. We are not doing the grammar schools as he wouldn't pass them so don't want to put him through it. Our preference is for the independent secondaries for various reasons. We'd be happy with our local state but we don't meet the religious criteria and it would be highly unlikely we'd get a place as it's over subscribed.

There isn't any pressure on him. We aren't applying for academic selectives but all the schools choose the top of the bell curve as the demand is high for places where we are. The ones with spaces are a good 90min coach ride away and we don't want him commuting this long for the next 7 years. We know kids who do but it's not something we want for him as the school day is long enough as it is.

@bigageap He isn't a "poor child". He really wants to pass! There is also a particular school he wants which isn't super selective but there's still a minimum passmark they need to hit. He's actually not happy with his current school - some bullying issues - so is looking forward to leaving. I'm off loading here precisely so to avoid projecting my worries onto him. He gets plenty of downtime, fresh air, exercise and time spent on extra curriculars that he enjoys. Unlike others, we aren't cutting down on these in the run up to the 11+ as we think it's important for his mental well-being and happiness to keep that balance. Thanks for explaining that it's an average score to pass. I didn't know this. I thought that even if he scores highly in Maths and VR, a low score in English would stop him automatically from moving to second stage.

@PennyNotWise worse case is that he doesn't get any 11+ offers from the independents we'd like. I don't want this to be a debate about state v private but we'd prefer private where we are including because of the better support for SEN students as well as much easier and shorter commute.

@Squiblet we tried this. If we are out and about, he does enjoying playing a game where we take it in turns to make up a sentence in a story. Asking him to write it down is another matter. Not sure why. I think the sheer effort of thinking about handwriting, spelling and vocabulary is too much effort for him. Writing is functional to him. He doesn't get the point of creative writing. That said, he's a voracious reader but you wouldn't guess that from his aversion to writing.

@Issuefroth it is creative isn't it! He once described a banana as purple and prickly in his school work when the teacher asked him to add adjectives!!!! To be clear, we've never come across a purple, prickly banana in real life. His point was they asked for adjectives and they were adjectives!!!

@coloursquare

OP posts:
dandelionsticks · 14/10/2023 14:19

@IcyPenguin101 we had these but they ended up going to the charity bin sadly.

@CurlewKate true and this helps me keep things into perspective. The SEN provision isn't as good though and the travel time would be much longer. But you're right that we won't be without a school place.

OP posts:
underneaththeash · 14/10/2023 16:50

My DS was awful at creative writing.
first do what you’re doing and get him to write what he needs to include in acronym form at the top of the page. (Smilie, metaphor, expanded noun, direct speech etc).
next also have the same story based around another story, preferably with just two characters so they can talk to each other. Call them Jill and Ron for example.

Now get him to imagine where Ron is based on the creative writing scenario presented to him. He needs to describe what Rob can see, hear, small, taste and feel. Then Ron meets Jill - they speak, something happens (it can be the same/similar each time) and then it ends in a cliff hanger.

You’ll need to practice this with him a few times and he should eventually get it.

Goneroundthetwist · 14/10/2023 16:56

Would he be better with a scribe or a laptop. Perhaps it’s too much to organise his brain to create a story and get it down on paper. If things more successful I’m sure you could ask for this as a reasonable adjustment.

KnickerlessParsons · 14/10/2023 17:05

Coming on to say that the majority of kids don't even get to sit there 11+, let alone pass it.
Most of us do perfectly well at a big standard state secondary - people who go to state schools still get to be doctors, teachers, vets, lawyers, engineers, politicians, captains of industry.....

Withnailandsigh · 14/10/2023 17:08

Sounds like he struggles with applying words to hypothetical things. I bet if you stood him in front of something he could tell you about it? Play a game with him, you wear a blindfold or sit away from the screen and he sits infront of the computer and has to describe famous movie scenes or something but can’t use proper nouns. So he’s telling you about The Addams family mansion, the cave in the goonies, the forest in avatar or whatever, and when he says its in water, you prompt him ‘dark? Sparkly? Still?’ Etc. see if you can guess the scene? Make silly suggestions from time to time to make him laugh and keep it fun but try to get him to absorb your vocabulary by osmosis with games like this. My DS was non verbal till nearly four, by six and a half he has a brilliant vocabulary and uses some lovely phrases because my incessant waffling and chatting and insistence on filling the air with games like this all day has helped him ( or irritated him till he’s desperate to shut me up 🤣) he’ll get there, he won’t be the next Yeates or Coleridge I suspect, but he’ll be able to describe a banana before long.

glassyglass · 14/10/2023 17:17

Jesus that's alot of pressure on the kid!

that was my take from the OP too!

Cant he go to a non selective school?

glassyglass · 14/10/2023 17:20

Obviously an independent one.

GreenhouseGarden · 14/10/2023 17:25

Yes. (DC1 definitely and DC2 probably wrote utter nonsense). But just depends what school are looking for.

will they have a choice between creative writing and a descriptive piece? Descriptive pieces may be easier for him.

GreenhouseGarden · 14/10/2023 17:27

DC2 wrote story starters with the Senco at primary school and they also worked out several world/themes that he could fit a narrative into. But he had all the background description sorted. Would that help?

GreenhouseGarden · 14/10/2023 17:39

just reread the OP and noticed he has ADHD. when you practice at home have you tried breaking the task down.

5min - plan
<have a break>
10 min- opening paragraph.
<have a break>
And so on: just so he isn’t being present with an enormous task all in one go.

dandelionsticks · 14/10/2023 20:16

Thanks to the helpful responses above. I think I will move this to the 11+ board as I don't want to turn this into a debate between state and private. I've already explained that all our preferences for State we wouldn't get as we don't meet the religious criteria. I agree that there's nothing wrong with State but we happen to live in an area where our preferences all require weekly church attendance throughout primary and we simply don't meet that.

Again, thanks for the helpful response and alternative perspectives.

OP posts:
Newuser75 · 14/10/2023 20:30

He reminds me very much of my son (10). Very good reader, a few years ahead of his age. Reads all the time! Bright boy. He has just been diagnosed with adhd too, he has dyspraxia and possible asd.

Have you looked into dysgraphia? We are waiting for assessment into this but difficulty with spelling and punctuation seems to be common. Just a thought in case you hadn't looked into it.

WiddlinDiddlin · 14/10/2023 20:33

Is this writing by hand? Could it be as simple as 'writing by hand is actually hard so he's rushing it/doesn't want to'...

I think the PP idea of him dictating a story and you writing it down and then him editing it is a good one. I'd write horribly badly if I had to hand write everything, but fortunately I learned to touch type so I can write as fast as I think, with zero effort!