WTF? £600 winter fuel allowance for all pensioners!

[user1497207191]

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger.

MIL just phoned up saying she'd got a letter telling her £600 was on the way to her and asking why, when she doesn't need it?

Just why??? She's not claiming means tested benefits. Her state and her husband's occupational pension are already far more than she needs to live on, meaning she saves a few hundred pounds a month into ISAs (which already stand at over £100k). Owns her own house, so no rent/mortgage.

Why the hell can't this money be directed at those who actually need it or more worthy causes? It's insane to keep throwing money at people who don't need it.

She doesn't need it, she doesn't want it. She wouldn't miss it if it wasn't paid to her.

If they can means test the child benefit and claw it back from those earning over £50k, why can't they come up with a way of ensuring winter fuel allowance is only paid to those who may need it? Why not only paid to those pensioners claiming pension credits, or rent allowance, or whatever?

Universal credit is between £3500 and £4500 a year for a single person. How is that not more than £600?

And another reminder that WFA is normally £200/300. This year and last are exceptions.

Younger people are less likely to vote for any party, if only they would get out and vote. You clearly missed that Winter Fuel Payment was introduced by the last Labour government @Singlespies.

Oh good, at last someone has arrived who can provide us with proof that all the other political parties have manifesto commitments to abolish or means test the winter fuel payment for pensioners - at least I assume you must know this, @Singlespies? You state with such confidence, just as many others have, that this is a Tory bribe that you must have checked what all the other parties would do? Can you link to their promises? Thanks in advance.

Doesn't make sense to me at all. One minute the govt are claiming that fighting inflation is their top priority, the next their pumping billions into the economy. Add to that, the biggest financial issue for many people right now is increasing mortgages and rents, yet this cash is being splurged on the demographic most likely to own their home outright.

@Riv UC is 368.74 per MONTH for someone aged 25+. So £85 per week compared to a state pension of £203.85.

It seems that Labour and the LDs would keep it anyway, judging by reports in September, when a rumour started that the Tories might abolish it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/sep/29/rishi-sunak-anti-car-policies-tories-20mph-speed-zones-ulez-keir-starmer-uk-politics-latest

https://www.gbnews.com/money/winter-fuel-allowance-scrapped-state-pension

Plus the housing element, which will vary.

Pendioners don't get an automatic housing element, even if they are renting.

£200 (normally). Fractionally less that £4 a week. And people think that millions should be spent on means testing the WFA, with some of the most elderly filling it forms and providing financially documents every year, to prove that they deserve it.

And yes, I'm still waiting for the posts from people on this thread who felt so badly about receiving the universal £400 energy discount last year that they gave it to charity.

Add to that, the biggest financial issue for many people right now is increasing mortgages and rents, yet this cash is being splurged on the demographic most likely to own their home outright.

How does owning your own home automatically suggest you can afford the heating. Old people are vulnerable. Which part of that do you not understand? Honestly, the hatred on here is just horrible.

Those on UC have had CoL handouts this year. What's the problem here?

Then the person on UC should find a job paying more than £85 per week.

People who have been assessed as not being able to work will be (quite rightly) getting more than that on UC

If it encourages the elderly to heat their homes then that's a good thing.

I don't think child benefit should be means tested either BTW, and I'd like to see free prescriptions for all. Means testing is a waste of money on systems that some will work around regardless; higher taxes but availability of services means everyone gets something back.

No, I don't understand how bricks and mortar pay the bills.

There is an argument that people could downsize/buy cheaper/rent cheaper - but that applies to anyone, not just pensioners.

Not all pensioners own houses. I don't, I rent a HA property, and pay the full rent of £800 per month. Cheaper than some private rentals, and variable when compared to mortgage costs. But not the oft quoted myth that social housing rents are about £90 per week...I wish.🙄

I, rightly, can't claim any means tested help with it, or anything else. I pay taxes.

I live alone, so all done on just my pensions.

But, it's a fact that as you get older, health tends to decline, and you do need extra heating on.

There are 3 things that cannot be altered in life - disability, old age, and death.

Everything else, from career, to the amount of children born, is choice based.

£203 per week? The reality is my state pension is less than £90 a week. Thats based on my NI contributions, none when I was looking after the DC when they were small, as no NI credits were awarded for being a SAHM. No Child Benefit for the first child back then either, until the mid 70s. Then when I first worked I paid what was known as the Married Women’s stamp, because we were on low incomes, and there were no magic top ups like there are today. Tax Credits and UC hadn’t been invented.

Of course if I hadn’t contributed later in life to an Occupational pension, we’d get Pension Credit and all the add ons it brings. Unfortunately, that extra pension isn’t much, enough to take DH and I a little over the PC limit. DH just has the old basic state pension, which even with over 40 years of NI contributions is far less than the New State Pension of £203 a week. That amount only applies to younger pensioners. There’s a real lack of understanding about pensions.

Our home in the North isn’t worth a lot, and although its an asset, unless we sell it, we get no income from it. We are unlikely to qualify for retirement housing in the social rented sector, and to buy similar in the private sector would cost far more than we’d get for our house. Plus there would be service charges which would be unaffordable.

We no longer work (mid/late 70s) so spend more time at home, needing more heat than we did when we were younger. Lets face it £500 works out at less than £5 per week each for the year. Would most people really grudge pensioners like us from receiving it?

These oap's have actually paid into the system to get their pension. Heaven forbid that anyone should actually have to pay in first before receiving benefits. And the 25 year old could get a job.

It wouldn't release anything like 200k by the time all the fees for buying and selling twto properties, moving and stamp duty have been paid and have you seen the service charges on those places? They eat up the equity in no time - those places are for people with generous pensions to pay all the costs who don't mind restrictions on visitors.
Plus most kick you out if you become too frail but restrict your rights to sell on at the very time you are least in a position to argue or move. Many of these schemes are a racket.

And of course as PP say - most older people want to stay part of their communities with all the diversity that includes. The only scheme of supported living I'd be happy seeing a relative use would be one run by a proper housing trust and they are like hen's teeth.

There used to be a commoner pattern of older people moving from houses to bungalows with a garden, maisonettes with a small garden or low rise mansion block style flats around with communal gardens. However these schemes no longer exist and the actual cost of moving is very high. Moving from a house to a bungalow in most areas can leave you with a net loss financially, nobody seems to build maisonettes or low rise with gardens any more.

Unlike other countries the UK also has none of the schemes which incentivise downsizing financially such as stamp duty/tax relief on moving down the housing scale. Rather than just berate old people for wanting to stay in the home they may have loved and raised a family in ask yourself what happened to all the schemes which incentivised people to downsize?

Yes, quite. Only on MN, could there be so many wealthy pensioners, or those, whose parents "don't need the money".

Yes, I thought so. So you advocating your dad give to those who need it, means you. No wonder you're so bitter.

By their measures you will be too because they put an inflationary figure on the value on both pensions and property to reach that claim, including a massive valuation on the state pension.

Its a PR piece from a lobby group with form for imaginative numbers with books and media to sell.

@Zebedee55 But the starting point/applicable amount for pensioner housing benefit is £201.05 pw, so pretty equal to the 'automatic' housing element in UC. A pensioner just has to claim help with rent separately, they will still get as much covered if not more (due to protection from 'bedroom tax') as a working age person getting £85pw.

If they genuinely don't need the money, I'd encourage them to give it (or part) to the local food bank.

We had a local initiative going when everyone got the £400 energy rebate... some on a fixed rate (so no increase) donated half , they raised a few thousand pounds. Was good to see that difference being made.

Yes, I think many forget that pensions are generally a contributory payment.

DH and I both worked from age 16, through child rearing, and we both paid a full stamp.

I had to wait an extra 6 years for my pensions, because the pension age rose from 60-66. But, I do get the higher rate.

Perhaps the answer is that no one (apart from the severely disabled), should be able to get anything, until they have actually worked and paid in for 5 or whatever years.🤔

Removing CB (effectively) from higher earners was a bit of virtue signalling by Osborne as part of "austerity" which ended up costing more than it saved.

The point is flat rate smaller benefits always cost more to means test than to dish out. This was covered up thread.

Exemption from the bedroom tax, for a couple, only applies if both are of pension age, and receiving a pension.

The bedroom ‘size criteria’ rule, or ‘bedroom tax’ as it is more commonly known, restricts the size of accommodation that universal credit or housing benefit can cover the rental costs for, based on the number of people in your household.
The bedroom tax applies if you are of working age and renting from a local authority, a registered housing association or other registered social landlord.
Working age means anyone between the age of 16 and pension age. You may be affected by the bedroom tax if you are a member of a couple and just one of you has reached pension age; you are not affected if you have both reached pension age.
The bedroom tax applies in Scotland, but the Scottish government has allowed for an extension of discretionary housing payments (DHPs) to cover tenants who would otherwise lose out. You need to apply for a DHP to receive this support. Similar measures apply in Northern Ireland.

Not if they're in the work related activity group post April 2017. They'd be getting the same as job seekers.

Visitors to this country arriving by boat to Dover are given hotel accommodation and eventually housed - yet some people in this country seem to be more enraged by pensioners getting some help with a heating bill. Is it their fault the energy companies have hiked the costs, the standing charge for a start is a significant amount per month.