Page 32 | WTF? £600 winter fuel allowance for all pensioners!

user1497207191 · 2023-10-13T12:34:13+00:00

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger. MIL just phoned up saying she'd got a letter telling her £600 was on the way to her and asking why, when she doesn't need it? Just why??? She's not claiming means tested benefits. Her state and her husband's occupational pension are already far more than she needs to live on, meaning she saves a few hundred pounds a month into ISAs (which already stand at over £100k). Owns her own house, so no rent/mortgage. Why the hell can't this money be directed at those who actually need it or more worthy causes? It's insane to keep throwing money at people who don't need it. She doesn't need it, she doesn't want it. She wouldn't miss it if it wasn't paid to her. If they can means test the child benefit and claw it back from those earning over £50k, why can't they come up with a way of ensuring winter fuel allowance is only paid to those who may need it? Why not only paid to those pensioners claiming pension credits, or rent allowance, or whatever?

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 22:25

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:22

I think you misunderstood me. These places might be lovely but I have no interest in living in some ghetto (however nice) surrounded by old people. I like a mixed community, I don't want to socialise and have outings with other people in the ghetto. Your parents might have loved it, I would rather be living in abject poverty.

If I need support I have children and GC who will be supportive and my income would allow me to pay for the support I need, which would probably cost less than the fees in these places.

When I was a child we used to laugh at my granddad who would complain about "old people" who were generally younger than him. I guess it is genetic as like him most of my friends are younger than me.

It is fine, we are all different. If your parents liked it that is great, I'd hate it and that is also great.

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I would absolutely hate it too.
As did my parents, thankfully they lived their lives in their home and never had to live anywhere they didn’t want. Just because they got old
Yuke

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 22:26

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:24

I can't imagine how they proved it. We have a secret ballot and unless they actually went and asked every pensioner they don't know.

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Some Govn or similar poll
Id check back but I’m half watching the Detectorists 😊

Raffles76 · 14/10/2023 22:29

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 21:22

I haven’t made one single “dig” at pensioners.
Feel free to quote what you’re referring to. Stating that a significant number of pensioners are not on a low income and don’t struggle with their heating bill is not a dig at pensioners ….
Seriously what are you on about, your posts are making less and less sense.

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Exactly this, my parents-in-law are (very well off) pensioners and they are in complete agreement with the OP that it’s not necessarily a great move to award everyone the allowance.
”wonkasworld” also accused me of saying that I thought all voting privileges for OAPs should be revoked 😂
I said nothing of the sort, obvs.

Tessabelle74 · 14/10/2023 22:29

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 22:00

My comment doesnt have anything to do with who does or doesn’t get certain benefits and more to do with the tone of the post

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My Dad is the type of man who will phone me to tell me he's upgraded his car when I've just had to borrow money off a friend to fix my 10 year old one! He's totally oblivious to the fact that both me and my sister struggle from month to month. He also took advantage of my mum's shock at being dumped after 25 years of marriage to con her with a really shit deal in the divorce so yes, you're right about the tone, well deserved as it happens.

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 22:32

Tessabelle74 · 14/10/2023 22:29

My Dad is the type of man who will phone me to tell me he's upgraded his car when I've just had to borrow money off a friend to fix my 10 year old one! He's totally oblivious to the fact that both me and my sister struggle from month to month. He also took advantage of my mum's shock at being dumped after 25 years of marriage to con her with a really shit deal in the divorce so yes, you're right about the tone, well deserved as it happens.

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Well yes it does sound it
i assumed there was a back story

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:34

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 20:27

Or just live alone, it’s automatically £500 or £600 depending on age. No requirement to be on benefits.

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If you live with someone else who is eligible you only get half so £250 or £300.

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:35

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 22:26

Some Govn or similar poll
Id check back but I’m half watching the Detectorists 😊

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Well you can't rely on polls. Leave would have won if polls got it right.

saraclara · 14/10/2023 22:36

Jenkib · 14/10/2023 22:15

If means testing is so expensive , why do they means test child benefit ?

Totslly agree about it being a vote winner .

Whilst there ARE vulnerable pensioners , there are MANY well off ones too who have benefitted from property boom / big pension pots .

Because child benefit costs far more than £200 a year (the normal WFA outside the present fuel crisis)

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:38

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 20:08

As child benefit is currently means tested the same logic already applies to that so I’m not sure what point you are making? It’s not the gotcha you think it is.

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So do you think it would be OK to get the winter fuel payment if your income was under £50k? Regardless of assets of course. I think most of us would still get it.

Babyroobs · 14/10/2023 22:42

Riv · 14/10/2023 21:58

Just realised that this year there’s a link where we can return the payment. Thank you for finding it for me. That’s new. I still think we’ll give it to the food bank though.
There are many pensioners in a worse position than us who could claim pensions credit but won’t because of the type of comments I’ve read on this thread and the divide and rule philosophy of this government that is perpetuated by the media. “Oh look at that scrounger claiming state handouts- don’t look at me and my mates claiming millions in well deserved, hard earned expenses”

State pensioners get a maximum of £203.85 a week and only if they have enough years of contributions. Basic standard Universal Credit is £334.91 a week for comparison.
This year’s winter fuel payments top that up by £11.50 or £4.80 making
£215.35 if you are single and over 80.
£210.58 if you’re part of a couple over 80. £207.65 if you’re between 66 and 80.
Many, mainly women, do not have any other income or only a tiny occupational pension to top this up. We don’t all own our own homes either. Those that do often have older houses that cost a lot in upkeep.
ts not a cushy retirement at the taxpayers expense for most- although some do have it better than others. Just like it was during our working life (unless you’re in government maybe?)

Did you mean to say basic standard Uc is £334.91 a MONTH rather than a week, because that's what it is ( excluding rent element etc).

PetuniaT · 14/10/2023 22:47

Eustaciavile · 13/10/2023 13:53

Envy, Ageism and ignorance all on one thread.
such fun.

As the deadbeat, have nots keep saying - This!

I bet all the complainants are on benefits. I'm looking forward to getting my first WFP having reached the age of 67 and only ever having received Child Benefit years ago

mydogisthebest · 14/10/2023 22:49

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 21:06

Why shouldn’t it be? Some pensioners are incredibly well off and don’t need a payment towards their fuel. A universal application is just as ludicrous as saying everyone who works from home should receive a winter fuel payment because they need their hearing on more.
Should all families with young children get it too because they also need their house to be warmer?
Its simply not logical to apply it to all pensioners when actually on average as a group they have more disposable income than many working families.
Pensioners who are on a low income should receive the help they need, those on high incomes should not.
Bizarre that some people are acting like that school of thought is so controversial and even the “ageism” claim.

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But how much would it cost to means test all for the sake of a whole £200?

Fionaville · 14/10/2023 22:56

likethislikethat · 14/10/2023 22:04

Yeah, kids saying their parents need this whilst at the same time owning their own home and won't downsize and the kids are rubbing their hands at the thought of all that lovely inheritance when mama and papa pop their clogs.

No the country cannot afford it but neither can the country afford to have about 1/3rd of the country on some form of benefits and another 50% on tax credits / universal credit.

Time to stop benefits and make criteria mega tough and only for a couple of years or you get nothing.

I take it you live in London? There's not a lot of people up here rubbing their hands for inheritance. Average house price in my parents area is 90k (which in my case would be split 4 ways) Flats are about 70k. Tell me how selling up the home theyve lived in for 50 years and downsizing, would make them much better off.
Stop judging the whole country as if we all live in rich suburbs of the South.

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 23:08

Raffles76 · 14/10/2023 22:29

Exactly this, my parents-in-law are (very well off) pensioners and they are in complete agreement with the OP that it’s not necessarily a great move to award everyone the allowance.
”wonkasworld” also accused me of saying that I thought all voting privileges for OAPs should be revoked 😂
I said nothing of the sort, obvs.

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According to her stating not all pensioners need it is basically like saying you think they should all be lined up and shot. The drama is unreal.

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 23:10

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:38

So do you think it would be OK to get the winter fuel payment if your income was under £50k? Regardless of assets of course. I think most of us would still get it.

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Why would the cap for a pensioner winter fuel allowance be the same as a cap when you are supporting a family?
It’s incredibly unlikely a pensioner is financially supporting dependents full time so it is only logical that the cap should be lower.

saraclara · 14/10/2023 23:10

Last year the energy bank charities were using social media to encourage those who were getting the enhanced WFA to donate it to support people in fuel poverty, which I thought was a really good idea. But I don't think it got quite as much traction as other campaigns have. Maybe because not so many elderly are social media inclined.

Instead of complaining on here, I suggest that those infuriated by their parents getting the WFA, have a (non-ranty) conversation with them about donating it to such a charity (or to any charity, or to someone in the family who they know is struggling.

Riv · 14/10/2023 23:17

Just a reminder that we have the lowest pensions in Europe.
@Grrrrdarling so sorry to hear of your struggles. I hope things do get better but suspect it’ll take more than just a change of government.
@AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen universal child benefits were instituted by the Beverage report (back in 1942) with the aim of increasing the birth rate that had fallen between the two world wars . The whole report was about the founding of the welfare state- NHS and all that. I the benefit continued with the aim of keeping children in education rather than sending them to work at 13. It was paid to the mother rather than the father to ensure the money was spent on the child and was deliberately not means tested. Women usually had to give up work on marriage and almost always if they were pregnant (they were sacked, they had no choice). Equality in the workplace wasn’t even a legal requirement until 1975 - so after all of the current pensioners had reached school leaving age of 16.

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 23:24

Riv · 14/10/2023 23:17

Just a reminder that we have the lowest pensions in Europe.
@Grrrrdarling so sorry to hear of your struggles. I hope things do get better but suspect it’ll take more than just a change of government.
@AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen universal child benefits were instituted by the Beverage report (back in 1942) with the aim of increasing the birth rate that had fallen between the two world wars . The whole report was about the founding of the welfare state- NHS and all that. I the benefit continued with the aim of keeping children in education rather than sending them to work at 13. It was paid to the mother rather than the father to ensure the money was spent on the child and was deliberately not means tested. Women usually had to give up work on marriage and almost always if they were pregnant (they were sacked, they had no choice). Equality in the workplace wasn’t even a legal requirement until 1975 - so after all of the current pensioners had reached school leaving age of 16.

Thankyou @Riv i had no idea it went back so far or indeed why it was introduced. Very interesting !

AGovernmentOfLawsAndNotMen · 14/10/2023 23:28

Iwasafool · 14/10/2023 22:35

Well you can't rely on polls. Leave would have won if polls got it right.

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But then came the bus 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lizzt2007 · 14/10/2023 23:28

user1497207191 · 13/10/2023 15:20

@Fightyouforthatpie

No-one has produced any figures at all on the costs of means testing winter fuel allowance - just vague assertions.

Exactly. And people are acting as if it costs nothing to pay it to all pensioners. There will be small armies of administrators, managers, etc., managing and administering the payment of the winter fuel allowance. It doesn't happen by magic. Yes, obviously there'd be a admin/management cost to means testing (or limiting in other ways), but if it was paid to only half the existing recepients, there'd be a saving in admin/mgmt (less people to pay), to offset the costs of means testing.

There isn't. In a past career I worked for dwp in a pension centre processing pension credit. Because the fuel allowance is paid to every pensioner it's as simple as adding code to a computer system and the payment is generated automatically. They do form a small team each year to deal with the few who may slip through the net or who pass away between the qualifying week and the payment week, but those staff are taken from the regular processing teams for a short period of time. When I did it there were 10 of us and we were used for three weeks. Geographically We covered most of yorkshire.

Grrrrdarling · 14/10/2023 23:56

@Riv I won’t get any better just worse but I have a child I never thought I would & she is horribly healthy so i won that lottery.

If I’d been well enough or supported enough I could have potentially sued for medical neglect but I wasn’t & I wasn’t so I apparently missed the boat on that 😒
For contrast on how different my
life has been left, thanks to the medical neglect, I was 9months off joining the Navy when I found out I was, by some miracle as I have PCOS, pregnant & now I drive everywhere because I can’t walk further than a few feet without pain & exhaustion & at home I crawl up the stairs.
Eventually I will not be able to afford to run my car so will at that point become a recluse & never leave the house alone. Plus side is I’ll save money by not going to the shops 😝

Yeah for us being a world leading country we are behind the times on many things.
Somethinv had to change because the country being governed as it is is just not sustainable.

saraclara · 15/10/2023 00:25

Lizzt2007 · 14/10/2023 23:28

There isn't. In a past career I worked for dwp in a pension centre processing pension credit. Because the fuel allowance is paid to every pensioner it's as simple as adding code to a computer system and the payment is generated automatically. They do form a small team each year to deal with the few who may slip through the net or who pass away between the qualifying week and the payment week, but those staff are taken from the regular processing teams for a short period of time. When I did it there were 10 of us and we were used for three weeks. Geographically We covered most of yorkshire.

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@user1497207191

There were 12.5 million people receiving the State Pension at February 2022,

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2022/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2022#:~:text=People%20receiving%20State%20Pension%20by%20type%20to%20February%202022&text=There%20were%2012.5%20million%20people,resulting%20in%20fewer%20new%20claims.

Can you imagine processing 12.4 million means test forms every year to work out who should and shouldn't receive the WFA? And coping with the appeals to the results? How many extra admin staff people would that take, for a benefit that is normally £200 pa?

And how many of the most vulnerable elderly who REALLY need that money, would be able to face the application form and find all the documentation they'd need to prove their circumstances? I'm guessing very few.

Likening an annual payout of (normally ) £200 to child allowance etc, with relation to the cost/benefit of the admin involved is just ludicrous.

DWP benefits statistics: August 2022

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2022/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2022#:~:text=People%20receiving%20State%20Pension%20by%20type%20to%20February%202022&text=There%20were%2012.5%20million%20people,resulting%20in%20fewer%20new%20claims.

Dibbydoos · 15/10/2023 00:55

Then she can use it and put food into food banks.

Wtf is wrong with you ,@user1497207191 ? The old are vulnerable to the cold. They should not be expected to worry about heating their homes as we approach winter.

Stop thinking giving money to one group disadvantages another it doesn't

And we're bankrupt cos loads of European countries owe us hundreds of billions and this government.t has defrauded that taxpayer of >£26b.

Wake the F up.

likethislikethat · 15/10/2023 01:44

Fionaville · 14/10/2023 22:56

I take it you live in London? There's not a lot of people up here rubbing their hands for inheritance. Average house price in my parents area is 90k (which in my case would be split 4 ways) Flats are about 70k. Tell me how selling up the home theyve lived in for 50 years and downsizing, would make them much better off.
Stop judging the whole country as if we all live in rich suburbs of the South.

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No not London but yes, I did do a Norman Tebbit and "get on my bike" to go find work when there was none.

However, if property prices are so low where you live, then your parents, grandparents and you have hugely benefitted in not having to pay down huge mortgages and have had far more disposable income (because your mortgage payments were so low) and you have presumably and wisely saved all that extra money in pensions and ISAs and are now financially self sufficient.

Or did you spend it on booze, cigarettes, scratch cards and whippets ?

likethislikethat · 15/10/2023 01:46

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