WTF? £600 winter fuel allowance for all pensioners!

[user1497207191]

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger.

MIL just phoned up saying she'd got a letter telling her £600 was on the way to her and asking why, when she doesn't need it?

Just why??? She's not claiming means tested benefits. Her state and her husband's occupational pension are already far more than she needs to live on, meaning she saves a few hundred pounds a month into ISAs (which already stand at over £100k). Owns her own house, so no rent/mortgage.

Why the hell can't this money be directed at those who actually need it or more worthy causes? It's insane to keep throwing money at people who don't need it.

She doesn't need it, she doesn't want it. She wouldn't miss it if it wasn't paid to her.

If they can means test the child benefit and claw it back from those earning over £50k, why can't they come up with a way of ensuring winter fuel allowance is only paid to those who may need it? Why not only paid to those pensioners claiming pension credits, or rent allowance, or whatever?

Nobody’s moaning @StrictlyComeback, simply pointing out that being a paper millionaire by virtue of a pension pot and a property bought decades ago doesn’t mean you don’t need liquid cash here and now. It’s very easy to airily pronounce that people should just move, much more daunting to actually do it.

Whilst you are forcing her out of the small terrace that has been her home for decades, would you like to suggest where she move to in London where she could release assets - £600k doesn't buy much in London. Or are you suggesting that she move to Outer Mongolia since the housing costs are much cheaper there?

If some MN posters had their way, we'd be reintroducing poorhouses.

But there already is a means tested version - the Warm Homes Discount, a relatively measly £150.

It seems the government have kept that one low, and increased the WFA, so that as pp have said many well off pensioners benefit.

TBH, if I were a pensioner who received the winter fuel payment and didn’t need it, I would just pocket it (would possibly give it to my DC).

Why? Because while the government is spending huge amounts of tax money on things like PPE which ultimately got binned and putting illegal immigrants up in hotels (how many millions is that now costing each DAY?), rejecting little bits of money in the hope that it will somehow be ring-fenced and spent on worthy causes is just nonsensical.

Wait until you are in your 70's, 80's or 90's and in a house you have lived in for maybe 40 years or more and see how happy you would be to move.

Moving is one of the most stressful things to do but you obviously think it is oh so easy

They're asylum seekers not illegal immigrants.

We don't all get £600. You have to be over 80. The winter fuel payment is normally £200 but has been topped up by £300 this year. I, for one, am very grateful for it! And I pay income tax on my small pension.

Re London pensioners who are asset rich in £600k houses but cash poor there ARE retirement places in London. Perhaps not everywhere but London pensioners can move into future proof / one level living in communities where everyone is over 60.

Here's one for £385k so would release almost 200k after moving costs. Spare room for visitors, modern shower to help avoid falls, likely lower heating bills as a modern flat, with communal lounge and gardens.

PP mentioned their relative got pension credit. Obviously that would stop if the person now had £200k in the bank as would council funded home care if they became infirm as the money is no longer tied up in the home.

So there are options. But as we see all the time on the elderly parents threads, many pensioners become set in their ways / fearful of change and want to stay in their current home even as they become isolated and the home becomes unsuitable for their needs.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130336091#/?channel=RES_BUY

The housing system is intimidating for the elderly. If there were a huge bunch of readily available comfortable 2 bedroom houses/flats with super insulation and wheelchair access at a very reasonable cost near hospitals, I am sure most would move in a heart beat.

We were just coming out of inflationary pressures. Now there is a huge crisis brewing in the Middle East. If the oil price goes through the roof and the Arab nations clump together again, given our huge national debt and the billions it is now costing to service it, we are screwed.

Politics is short term. Politicians are forever responding to the next crisis rather than being able to plan ahead. People need to look out for themselves and not rely on Government. Gone are those days. Demographics have changed and the West is not as powerful or as rich as it used to be.
And people also need to stop blaming politicians. They are just doing a job, and it is not that well paid and in recent history, some politicians were murdered. Instead of criticising politicians, if you want to make a change, join a party and get involved yourself.

I suppose if you have to you have to but personally I can't imagine anything worse than living in something like that. I might be 70 but I don't want to live surrounded by old people. I like my young neighbours, I like seeing the kids turn into teenagers and chat about their exams or new job or whatever.

I don't know about that particular block but I do have friends who have moved into similar places and the monthly costs can be extortionate.

The voters are responsible. Voters have, for decades, wanted a low tax economy. The politicians have pandered to the voters. Hence, going right back to Brown, throwing money at people through the over-generous tax credit/pension credit system, keeping income taxes low but increasing NIC (tax on workers), throwing money around like confetti during covid (unless you were one of the 3 million they excluded), etc. Sadly, we've got the politicians we deserve and voted for.

No it wouldn't. There are already mechanisms in place to make payouts to those in receipt of benefits. It is purely political and morally very wrong.

If we are going to start means testing every pensioner before they receive the winter fuel allowance, perhaps we should also means test the child benefits (and yes I know that it is not given to everyone). There was a thread here recently from someone who felt guilty that she had used her child benefit on actual things for her children and not saved it up to give her children a lump sum savings pot. Apparently a lot of her friends did this because they didn't actually need the child benefit.

That would be a different thread.

@Choux you also read the terms and conditions I suppose? How much is the annual service charge? Usually several thousands. All those extras are not free. And there's usually a clause requiring you to sell back to them at a loss.
Obviously they don't put it like that.
So that's a bit unfortunate when you need a nursing home and you're many thousands worse off.

I suppose if you have to you have to but personally I can't imagine anything worse than living in something like that. I might be 70 but I don't want to live surrounded by old people. I like my young neighbours, I like seeing the kids turn into teenagers and chat about their exams or new job or whatever.

Am sure every retirement place is different and pensioners reach stages of being elderly at different rates. My parents lived in two over 55s places:

1 a two bed flat which looked like semi detached houses set in a landscaped development where most people where probably mid 60s to mid 70s. My parents were 78 and 70 when they bought it. They made friends their and used to do days and meals out together but they also had the energy to visit their existing friends and family and go on holidays. They were there for about 5 years but as my dad's health deteriorated they moved to....

2 an extra care housing scheme run by a housing association. It was a rented 2 bed 'apartment' in a seven year old building with gardens around it. There was an in house team of carers for those that needed it, on site management during the working week, a restaurant open Mon - Fri daytime and occasional Sunday lunches, a hairsalon, a church, 2 lounges for socialising and holding events and an active social committee. It was a requirement at the point of moving in that one person had some kind of health issue but a couple of flats were lived in by healthy widows in their 60s who still wanted to be there after their husbands died. My parents stayed there for 5 years - with the help of the carers in the last couple of years - and my dad died there.

Both these places were full of support and care but also activities and fun. You might not need that support right now but, when you do need it, your young neighbours with full time jobs and kids won't be in a position to provide regular support. These places can be really supportive communities.

@Choux there are hundreds of similar type flats that sit on the market forever. That particular one has been for sale since Jan. Huge monthly service charges and they drop in value as people don't want to buy them. Plus the leasehold issue to factor in
I'd strongly advise anyone against buying something like this

This in spades. Why do you think those places are cheap @Choux? They’re impossible to sell because all that equity you liquidate goes in extortionate service charges.

@Howtohandl and I bet you at some point in their lives your in laws were skint.
I know my parents were. Really struggled to pay the bills both when they bought their first house and when we were young
Just before covid we had huge childcare costs and were really counting the pennies
Fast forward to now and my husband has increased his salary, I'm working for hours and childcare has stopped
Now we can splash the cash a bit and save
I hope when we're in our 60s we will go on some lovely holidays and have some nice savings behind us and decent pensions. But we will have it through earning it and saving while paying our taxes.
I also bet you won't be quite so holy about it all when some of their assets and savings come your way when they die

YANBU. It is not 'ageist' to have an adult debtate regarding how the welfare state should be reformed in response to our ageing population; significant numbers of whom have vast reserves of asset wealth. It is immoral to transfer public money (including money from people who can ill afford it) to a group of people based on solely on age rather than need - and this includes other fringe benefits, like free bus travel and prescriptions. Nobody is arguing that pensioners in genuine need should be financially penalised but so long as we continue to treat age as a proxy for need we are removing support from other areas of society that would greatly benefit it.

I read the listing which doesn't state the service charge etc but I am familiar with a place my parents lived in.

There was a monthly service charge for upkeep of the gardens and maintenance of the buildings. But do 75 year old pensioners want to do their own gardening / house maintenance? They probably just don't bother and then devalue their house.

Everyone should go into a purchase with their eyes open. When my parents sold their over 55s place they had to pay 1/2% of the sale proceeds to the co who built and ran it. So they paid 2.5% - theirs was up north so less than £100k for the flat. The £500 per year that cost them was well worth it for the friendships and community they got there.

Everyone makes choices in life about how live and how to spend their money. It might not add up for everyone at whatever life stage they are at but pensioners in £600k houses in London do have options as they age, find their pension not being sufficient etc.

Age is mostly a proxy for need in the contexts you cite though.

The same ones complaining won't be refusing child payments though.

1/2% of the sale proceeds to the co who built and ran it for every year they owned it is what I meant to say.

Perhaps my mum is now poorer than she would otherwise have been if they had lived elsewhere. But now my dad is gone she is living in a care home and her assets are dwindling at a MUCH faster rate than when they owned a retirement flat.

McCarthy Homes’ service charge is nearly £4k a year. Add that to the loss in value and it’s pretty obvious what a shit deal these geriatric ghettos are.