WTF? £600 winter fuel allowance for all pensioners!

[user1497207191]

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger.

MIL just phoned up saying she'd got a letter telling her £600 was on the way to her and asking why, when she doesn't need it?

Just why??? She's not claiming means tested benefits. Her state and her husband's occupational pension are already far more than she needs to live on, meaning she saves a few hundred pounds a month into ISAs (which already stand at over £100k). Owns her own house, so no rent/mortgage.

Why the hell can't this money be directed at those who actually need it or more worthy causes? It's insane to keep throwing money at people who don't need it.

She doesn't need it, she doesn't want it. She wouldn't miss it if it wasn't paid to her.

If they can means test the child benefit and claw it back from those earning over £50k, why can't they come up with a way of ensuring winter fuel allowance is only paid to those who may need it? Why not only paid to those pensioners claiming pension credits, or rent allowance, or whatever?

Last winter was the first year that I qualified for the winter fuel allowance. I gave it to my two daughters who were hit hard by the energy price rise, one on unpaid maternity leave, the other in a very old, very cold house with virtually no insulation.

I don't know how any pensioner in my financial situation (very far from wealthy, but comfortably able to live within my income) can accept that money without moral discomfort.

In future years, if my daughters are in a better position, I'll donate it to one of the 'energy bank' charities.

Oh, and no, I don't vote Tory and never will.

It isn't £600 for all pensioners is it? The Gov website says between £250 and £600.

But if those who don't need it like your MIL - they will have paid more tax on their other income to more than cover the £500/600 that is going into her household.
How would tax be worked out on a few hundred pounds given to a household unless the 'current' tax band is applied. All that to get back perhaps £20 or £40 in tax on the £200 WFA that was usual and which it will revert to probably next year.

You do have the option of downsizing, since you are retired there is no need to live in an expensive area and smaller houses are cheaper to heat.

Our house is estimated to be worth x6 what we paid for it 30 years ago, in an area that that suddenly shot up in value in the last few years. So not a great gain compared to some other areas of the UK. And we have pensions that we have paid into assiduously since we were 35. So we are suddenly depriving young families? We were once a young family too (well quite middle aged as I was a new mum at 43). And as I was self employed then, there was no help with childcare. I could have claimed back the cost of secretarial help but not that of the nanny which I needed to do my work, which involved international travel. I turned 66 last year. Get my state pension, as does DH, but our financial security is built on saving for the future. It is almost impossible to see how to do it before you are 40 these days. But trust me, save the money as soon as you have it. Thank me when I'm dead.

It's £250 if you live with someone else;
£500 if you live alone;
£600 of you're over 80 and live alone

I think others here have mentioned the cost of means testing.
Some might be borderline for extra financial support but need the heat up in winter as older people feel the cold more and are affected more adversely by it.
Government doesn’t want to risk loads of elderly people dieing of the cold…they are more susceptible or ending up in hospital taking up beds and costing money…that’s a harsh way of looking at it but that’s what the nhs try to avoid in winter.
Others have mentioned the majority of todays elderly do not have private pensions. This is not down to not wanting to pay in but because, historically, as people changed jobs employers did not have to take on your existing pension. They would only pay into their scheme. So for example. I’m not a pensioner but I have had in my career 5 separate pensions. Each office as I moved unwilling to take on my existing pension. Each pension charging too much ( in those days there was no protection ) to move your pension to another scheme ie huge penalties. Three of my pensions have disintegrated over time due to costs. Things have changed now and everyone has more protection. We didn’t in the past. So lots of people don’t actually have huge pensions.

So
The OP said her relative didn’t need and didn’t want the money.
My response to that comment is, she can give it away or not accept it.

Whilst we still do live in a carrying society Governments over the years have decided to treat all pensioners equally when it comes to preventing potential health problems.

More than half of all adults are net benefactors of the tax and benefits system.

I.e. most people take out more than they put in - even the middle quintile (middle 20% of all earners) are takers not contributors.

So what's my point..?

Well given the state of the voting in this thread, most MNers really don't like others taking out of the pot but they're quite happy to take for themselves.

@CagneyAndLazy could you show your workings?

Yes, my DM88 who lives alone will get £600 to help her stay warm and dry enough to be healthy. Her income is the old State pension of £155 per week and a pension credit top up to £203 pw. She owns her small house, does not drive and worked until she was 78 years old.

Who is so niggardly as to view that as a Tory-voting pensioner mooching off the back of hard-pressed young families? Yes, she probably votes Tory. She reads the DM too, but only because it is the cheapest daily newspaper. When she could afford to choose her paper, she read the Times.

Crazy if people are millionaires and getting it also the same here where I live everyone gets the child allowance, multi millionaires as government can't be arsed to means test it. Also same where I live with their energy credits. So really wealthy people who own numerous homes/holiday homes get energy credits for all their houses. When in reality we do not want hand outs, we want them to lower the standard day rate of energy, and lower the bills as most only brought prices down by 10 per cent when in fact wholesale prices have gone down loads. It is disgusting and we should all be out protesting as it is price gouging same as the supermarkets with food prices. Do not know why we have an energy regulator as all in cahoots with each other, the rich look after each other.

But also I do think if you cannot afford to have loads of children then don't, child benefit should be for 2/3 children, anything after that no.

Papyrophile the hardworking people like your grandmother is more than entitled to it, it is the extremely wealthy that should not be getting it. Those borderline should also get it as no body should go cold. I am talking about the super wealthy.

I get the government funding rage here but for every wealthy "I don't need it" there's 2 more that really really need it.

DH's parents are retired and comfy enough to run 2 ludicrously expensive cars that leave the drive once a week at best, eat out 3 x a week and holiday 3X a year. However FIL ran a small enterprise all his life, paid all the relevant taxes and employed 10 staff for 30 years so I think he's paid his dues.

Elderly aunt regularly gives the kids cash every time we visit (they don't know what to do with cash :)) and once a year insists on taking the family out for dinner when we visit her as she's been left relatively comfortable with inherited wealth.

The people who need it however REALLY need it and as much as you'd love to see a system that calculates the haves and the have nots, I'm not sure that some quango wouldn't spend £5mil + pretending to sort it and being thoroughly ineffective.

Neither of these two relatives need the payment but £600 isn't the end of the world when they've spent a lifetime spending income tax, inheritance tax and never drawn benefits.

The older you get, the more the odds are stacked against you. Going back to my DM and newspapers. Her DM costs 60p daily; the Times is £2.60. I have an online sub, £20 for three months, DM can't really read and follow information on a phone because it's not a skill you just get/intuit at nearly 90.

I spent hours on the phone to my late DMIL's phone service in the last few years of her living independently, trying to sort stuff out. Trying to explain to call centre staff in the Philippines or India that mother-in-law has dementia and cannot follow an automated voice system. Worse, start trying to alter the contract details and authorisations.

@Dollyparton3 exactly
My Dad recently passed away having worked his entire life. He worked 7 days a week throughout our childhood. He would get home at half five having been at work since seven then mum would go out to work 6 until 11. But greedy boomers you see according to MN. Both paid into a private pension but when they retired they weren't well off by any means. Comfortable enough as mortgage paid off but not wealthy enough for new cars or numerous holidays
Mum will have to tighten her belt a bit now as her pension was less although she will get a portion of Dad's
Damn right she should get the winter fuel payment. Yes she could still pay her bills without it but having paid tax and NI for years and years and never claiming anything she deserves it. Dad was still paying tax into his 80's as his private pension that he paid into for years took him over the threshold
Bet the vast number of those on here moaning about this are creaming as much out of the pot as they can

generation "me first"

What generation would that be? My mother is nearly 91. She and my recently deceased father lived through World War II, experiencing evacuation, family disruption, disrupted education system, rationing, bombing and many other privations. There was no NHS when they were growing up. That arrived when they were in their mid-teens. My Dad left school, worked, did National Service and then worked in retail until his 65th birthday. Thanks to the Baby Boom, my Mum was able to leave the Civil Service and train as a primary school teacher, which would have been beyond her reach previously, because of lack of grants. She taught for decades. Yes, they were able to buy a house, but it was a struggle for a long time to meet the mortgage payments at a time of rampant inflation. I can truthfully say that 'me first' was the absolute reverse of the way they have lived their lives.

Let's go back to the OP's opening sentence...

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger.

Right, so off the top of my head, she has momentarily forgotten the cost of Brexit - the cost of lockdown's, the cost of furlough, the cost of importing masks and PPH from of above all places, China - the cost of housing those coming to Dover by boat in hotels etc....

Please don't lay the blame of incompetence at the feet of pensioners getting help for fuel bills they didn't envisage rising so much....

As has been explained many, many times, this is a low value payment compared with many benefits. Means testing it would cost more than just paying it to all pensioners. If it was given to just pensioners receiving Pension Credit, many who are not quite poor enough to get that would miss out and struggle with their bills over the winter. Many wealthy people receiving it will pass it on to family members in need or to food banks or charities.

Why not mastermind a public campaign so wealthy people can explain whether they refused it or if they took it, what they did with it?

No link - because £600 is not paid to all pensioners. Only those aged 80 or over and living on their own will get £600. If your Mum was born before 25 September 1957 she should get something
This link tells you more: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/winter-fuel-payment/

Still waiting for all the people who think this is a Tory policy to bribe pensioners to confirm whether the Labour Party would abolish or means test the winter fuel payment (which they introduced a generation ago). See also: LibDems, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens and every other political party in the UK.

A million times this

Ironic cross-post ...

Totally agree with you. And how on earth would it be means tested? There's an abundance of people, particularly women who have been stuffed by the male pension pot but sat very hopefully clinging onto their property and independence because that should be their rightand their children's inheritance that they've earned during their lifetime. The home may cost them a fortune to run in todays money but they've paid bountifully into the system.

I currently know women in their 40's who have very little pension or savings but their home that they'll pay into until they're 65 is their only asset. And for all that time they'll be paying into taxes, that's not to say those who pay less tax but don't have the skills or education to earn more should be penalised.

We're talking about people being given a little extra back from the system to not be scared to switch the lights on or heat their houses. I think when you hit pensioner age it's on you to take it (most have earned it) or pay it forward if you don't need it. But I don't begrudge pensioners who might say "hey, we don't need it but thanks, we'll work out our morals on how to spend it"