To wonder why some babies just won’t breastfeed?

[Summermeadowflowers]

And what would have happened to them in times before formula?

I am wondering this idly as I express milk for my DD as we couldn’t latch, and have had to order a replacement part for the pump so have very painful breasts at the moment!

It is awful but would they just have died?

Sadly babies would have either died, or wet nurses would be used.

It's so hard when you're exclusively pumping and your pump breaks.

With DS he was premature and fed via Ng tube for ages, I had crap supply despite pumping 12xa day, much to the detriment of my mental health (although at least it felt like something I could do.)

We tried cup feeding as a transition to breast when Ng tube went and he had a scary choking thing then it was bottles of ebm and nutripr from dp while I pumped.

I know other people with babies born smaller and earlier than Ds who managed it though, so I still have the lingering feeling I did something wrong. I had two sessions with a lactation consultant too. The times he could feed from me felt magical, like we'd learnt to ride a bike, then we'd lose it again. I ended up pumping until he was mobile (you cannot chase a baby with a breastpump on) then feeling hugely guilty about stopping, them just sad, the relieved.

Super grateful formula exists

Rich would have used wet nurses where they paid a woman that recently had a baby to BF their baby.
the poor either a friend or family had to help feed if not then they would of died. I think also before formula if they really couldn’t get help or BF then they would mix water and stuff together to try and feed the baby, also animal milk was very commonly used.

I think midwives used to check for tongue tie and snip it so that might have dealt with some latching issues.

I think some issues are medically related- e.g. I had pethidine in labour and my baby was so sleepy for days after and had trouble staying awake to suck. I wouldn't have pethidine again for these reason, but it wouldn't have been an option years ago.

But yes, wet nurses would have been common and infant mortality was much higher.

Same as any mammal that can't feed naturally, they would sadly die. It's thanks to formula and bottle feeding options that we have such good rates of thriving in infants.

Exclusively pumping is hard OP. I hope you had good support and other options, e.g. nipple shields, were tried.

Mine wouldn't and the breastfeeding support team declared they hadn't read the manual 😂

But yes abit like the animal world, babies die.

Have you tried baby again? With DS2 I pumped for a month then tried him again on the breast mid pump and he latched on and I fed him from the breast 100%

If the baby won’t latch a wet nurse probably wouldn’t help, though …

Pumping is hard. I won’t miss it!

I think most likely another woman would feed the baby, or they’d be fed animal milk instead. Some would survive, some not. But children died of all sorts back then so you were probably lucky to have survived childbirth anyway!
My first didn’t feed as he was syringe fed at birth due to low blood sugar - I guess in olden days he wouldn’t have been syringes so would have fed from me instead.
But we probably would have died anyway as I had to have a c section.

Have you tried nipple sheilds

My first was premature (33 weeks) and didn't have the strength/stamina to feed at first, so was tube fed. She then had to learn to feed before we could go home and the fact is that bottles are easier for babies than breasts, so bottles got us home sooner. By that time she was used to bottles and there was no way back. Cue four months of exclusive pumping. Hard work.

So that's why my baby couldn't breastfeed, anyway. If formula didn't exist she'd have been fine, cause I'd have just kept pumping longer, though I wouldn't have liked it.

For what it's worth, my second was term and was ebf directly until weaning.

According to my mother, in ye olde days of the 1980s, babies were weaned at 12 weeks or even earlier.

So, no I don't think babies would have necessarily died. They just would have been fed something else.

There's several elements to this:

1. far fewer women couldn't breastfeed because:

• it was pretty much the only feeding method, a ready alternative was not available and so much more effort was put in to it (because the alternative was death)
• there was considerably more shared knowledge on breastfeeding, fewer women struggling alone.
• baby weight wasn't as closely monitored so insufficient weight gain was a reason to stop breastfeeding
• women were forced to suffer through painful feeding and other difficulties due to fewer options.

1. Fewer babies failed to breastfeed because:

• the increase in tongue tie is noted to coincide with increase use of folic acid
• it was the only option, so more effort was put in to feeding them.
• more experienced nurses were used to feed baby until they got the hang of it.

1. Alternatives were few and far between, and unavailable to most because:

• wet nurses were a valuable resource and charged for their services.
• 'formula' was extremely expensive and pretty much snake oil
• sterilisation in the home was unheard of leading to well known "death bottles"

1. Yep, more babies died (causes were varied though).

Whilst formula as we know it is a relatively modern invention - the first mixture marketed specifically as a baby food was produced in the 1860s - feeding babies alternatives to breastmilk has probably been going on for thousands of years.
Their is archeological evidence that animal milks of some kind were fed to infants using rudimentary bottles in Roman times and earlier. By Victorian times glass bottles with rubber teats were becoming readily available and pap boats were also popular from the 17th century on, pap being a mix of bread and milk or water. Various broths or gruel would have been fed to babies this way too.
Obviously none of these things were really suitable nutritionally and from the hygiene perspective it was terrible. One popular design in the 19th century became known as the murder bottle because so many of its young users died. Thankfully as time went on knowledge improved, as did living conditions, making it possible to prepare formula safely.
But there have probably been attempts to find breastfeeding alternatives since time began. Aside from issues where babies won't latch, maternal mortality was so high that there must have been a lot of motherless babies and not necessarily enough wet nurses to go round. They weren't very good alternatives obviously and lots of babies did die as a result (though infant mortality was very high as it was ) but bottle feeding isn't the modern idea we are sometimes told it is.

When I was struggling to breastfeed in the first few days my grandma told me that her mother said that both my grandma and her brother couldn't feed properly so she spoon-fed them hand-expressed milk. Which just sounds so difficult but they both survived so it must have worked

Feeding issues are as old as time

My grandma's first born had a heart defect and she wasn't allowed to breastfeed him. After this she never produced enough milk to breastfeed solely. It was the 50s and her sister also had children of the same age and nearby so she "topped up" my mum and auntie. Essentially wet nursed them.

My dad was born in 1961 at 28 weeks weighing 1kg. My nan was sent home and told to grieve for her son. He lived, he was 8 weeks old when discharged, she had no milk and didn't like the idea of breastfeeding anyway. He was fed condensed milk (by the hospital and after her got home) as it was more calorific than formula

I don't know much about the feeding situation but my grandad was born in the early 30s with spina bifida. He had pioneering surgery immediately after birth and was one of the first babies to have spina bifida treated surgically and this was preNHS. He spent the first 2-3 months of his life in hospital. I have his babies bottle downstairs in a display cupboard. It's glass and in the shape of a banana and could have one or two teats attached depending on whether you are feeding one or two babies

Sometimes a wet nurse / another boob is a different shape and they might manage it, some might be fed with dipping cloth/ fingers in milk in the hope they get stronger. Some would have sadly died. Romans used baby bottles (of sorts) I believe, no doubt solutions to feeding hungry babies are not new, but of course sterilisation has made a massive difference as well

Fascinating thread. My first DD couldn’t latch and I expressed for 8 months. Don’t miss it.

Also some women lactate more readily without as much of the pressure, so passing a baby around might be just 'enough' for some.

My experience was very up and down.

I almost exclusively breastfeed until 10 months and it put me in hospital

We had feeding issues from the first week as she pulled off and screamed every 5-10 seconds. On our worst days she only fed for a minute or two in total over 6 or 7 feeds. I don't know how but she gained weight beautifully so none cared.
She was diagnosed with food allergies and reflux at 4 months. I went through an awful process of trying to eliminate foods from my diet to find out what was triggering the screaming and feeding aversions. I reached breaking point and asked for formula. The GP didn't check the ingredients for her allergens and prescribed her one she was allergic to. We had fought hard to get her to accept a bottle again but she had a reaction to 1oz and after that she refused the bottle.
The GP prescribed 2 more formula with the same ingredient but we eventually got a paediatrician to prescribe her a safe formula but she wouldn't take the bottle.

This was my lowest point. Not having a choose in breastfeeding and being on a ridiculous diet was hard and I was losing so much weight I wasn't far off my anorexic weight. I ended in a mother and baby unit and I couldn't keep feeding her. We had to stop cold turkey and she went 26h with a drink but plenty of wet food to keep her hydrated. Then nursery got her take a bottle and she had the formula up to 2 years.

Absolutely the worst time I had breastfeeding was the last month. I had been hesitant previously but I knew when I had reached my limit. Both of us thrived once she was on formula and we managed to get to symptom free from a allergies when she was 14 months. We would never have managed that if I was still breastfeeding.

Breastmilk and breastfeeding is wonderful but also horrendous.
For some formula is a choice for others it's a lifeline and for me it was absolutely a lifeline

For around 12 hours after birth my son kept falling asleep when latching on to suck, as he was exhausted from the birth (i was only in labour for 4 hours but i guess it's still a lot for our tiny bubs!). The midwives asked me to express into a syringe, and we squirted that into his mouth. Does make me wonder if milk was expressed more and spoon-fed (or into one of the little beaker cups they give you). Even newborn babies do suck when a cup is placed to their lips.

Obviously I don't know your situation but it's surely the case that the existence of other options (formula or expressing) mean that people understandably 'give up' sooner. Its perfectly natural for a Parent to not to want to hear their baby cry with hunger so we quickly go to alternatives if BFing is not working. I am sure there would be a small percentage of Mothers who were genuinely not able to BF but I suspect it's a far smaller percentage than the current numbers suggest.

Just to add - I found pumping such a pain in the backside so well done to you for persevering!

yes I've heard this too. Must have been really tough going. But back then the babies feeding and survival in the first few weeks was everything, everyone rallied around new Mums unless they were very isolated.