To think we should avoid London right now?

[StayorgoLDN]

Due to visit London in the next few weeks.

Anxious with Palestinian protests and so forth in the news. I don’t want to be near that with young children, and worried that it may escalate to some sort of attack.

We are not Jews, but presuming as the U.K. is supporting Israel that we’ll all be fair game ie there might be an attack/bomb somewhere prominent to send a message to gov.

Have been in London during terrorist attacks before and I’d rather avoid.

AIBU to consider rescheduling our family trip to next year?

I would love this. I really would. The brutality of what I've seen men doing in the supposed name of 'war' is just unspeakable, but when I see women celebrating and mocking the rape and degradation of other women and the mutilation of children... I just can't. Can't relate to it at all, can't imagine any situation at all, ever, where I would respond like that.

Many of my extended family were murdered by the Nazis. But I wouldn't be laughing and jeering if the wives and children of Nazi leaders were raped and murdered. There is no 'context' whatsoever which makes rape and brutalisation by men, of women, anything but utterly horrific and terrifying to me.

To laugh and joke about it and celebrate it just seems utterly inhuman to me. And makes me very, very, very scared. There is nothing more terrifying to me, on a very deep level, than the image of a woman with a baby looking at a man and saying "please no", and him just... not caring. It breaks every human bond, every bit of empathy.

I see it in some of the responses here to what's been done to Israeli women and children, and it scares the absolute living fuck out of me.

this image - attached - has stayed with me my whole life, since I first saw it in my teens. I struggle to carry on living in a world where this happens. I struggle with my decision to bring children into this world.

I see it here in some of the absolute coldness and callousness of the responses to the face to face, point blank, utterly brutal and horrendous things that have been done to women, babies, children and young girls in the last few days. And dread to think what might be happening to the hostages in Gaza, if any of them are still alive.

The only answer that I can see is compassion. Choosing compassion and seeing us all as one, we must choose the path of compassion. Women have shone the torch of compassion for centuries and we must continue to do so. If for no other reason our children need us too. There are but a few who truly want this and no one will benefit. By uniting and choosing the path of compassion there is hope and the beginning of a new era.

Compassion doesn't mean anything when dealing with evil who wish to destroy Israel like Hamas. Did we solve the problem of Nazis (who I were similar in evil to Hamas) with compassion? We killed many Germans to win that war as we felt it was the only way. I am so sorry for how you feel @BlurredEdges and the lack of empathy of some. I 100% stand with Jewish people.

Well said. Unfortunately, but it is true.

We are doing nhm, the eye, a river cruise,the tower, tower bridge, the British museum, the imperial War museum, hamleys, harrods and regent street/leicester square for some shopping. We have done them all before and rotate different activities, but have given not a shred of thought to changing our itinerary.

Well that is lovely for you but several posters have suggested you would feel differently if you were Jewish, similar to how a black person would feel more threatened passing a national front match than a white person.

There was a little girl tonight on a news report from Gaza who had lost her parents and was scared, crying and vulnerable. I cried with her, she needs compassion. She is a child. We need to stop weaponising the vulnerable and offer help to all. That child is unlikely to even understand any of this. Any brutality is wrong, there is no place for it.

I wouldn't avoid London. Not sure why you posted on AIBU as you seem to have made your mind up not to go and to be more interested in dissuading other people not to go to London than trying to genuinely decide whether or not to go.
If you don't want to go don't go.

https://twitter.com/ChavuraStephen/status/1712909958478811598

Sorry that happens to you regularly . Can I ask what happened this week with the Americans ? Occasionally I’ve been mistaken for being Muslim so I do worry about being a victim of Islamophobia despite not being Muslim.

Yes I'm just saying your compassion is not going to help that girl or anyone else unfortunately. It is just fine words.

@BlurredEdges - I am so sorry that you felt this way. And I would be very scared too.

I would say reschedule your trip.
If you’re anxious, will you enjoy it?
You have a lot to do to get here and then go home. I work in a sen college so I empathise with you and if your hotel is near the embassy….. reschedule. Try and have some peace of mind 🙏🏻

That is not what the PP was saying - of course what your grandfather and great grandfather did is valued, but if that is your family then (I am assuming) you will be British not Israeli. There are peaceful Muslims living in this country too which the government also have to take into consideration

I live in London, about 5 miles from the centre. I was working in central London during the period when there were several IRA bombing incidents. Perhaps lurking at the back of my mind, was the knowledge that something horrible could happen, but I can't say it was a constant worry. As others have said, we do not have control over the many things that can occur in life - and the example of driving or being a passenger in a car is a risk that most people take.

I was in central London today with my granddaughter and we saw protesters walking towards and into Trafalgar Square. Many, many people who, at least at the time we were present, caused no problems. Of course, there is always a risk that some demented person will do something violent, but my feeling is we can't live our lives in fear - otherwise we would never step foot outside our homes.

The increase in violent or aggressive acts, despicable as such acts are, have not just affected Jewish people. Muslims too have been subjected to abuse and aggression. It is not a new thing - our former Prime Minister made what I considered to be some very incendiary remarks about Muslim women, some might say legitimising the "othering" of people who were already experiencing hostility in their everyday lives.

People have to make their own decisions as to whether they wish to come into London. If they are afraid then it is probably best to avoid it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unspeakable-slaughter-but-ive-seen-nobody-flying-an-israel-flag-vg5z35twt

I found a mention of the vigil, not sure why there wasn't much coverage of it; I would hope many people would have turned up if they'd have known but reading this article I don't know if that's true. I don't understand where this anti-semitism has come from, I'm sure it didn't used to be like this? I had a Jewish friend in the naughties and they never said anything, but I suppose maybe they wouldn't.

She's asked for a cease fire is that not a good thing? To stop this brutality towards innocents now. I agree that Gaza needs much better treatment and respect but what hamas did does not help that. Please look for peace.

I was in London yesterday meeting a friend. We were around Trafalgar square, Covent Garden and Leicester square. I didn't know about the planned March until I was on the train in. I noticed a heavy police presence lots of vans. When we came out of the National Gallery there were a few people with flags and banners and some fire works were let off. There was a helicopter or two hovering and police blue lights flashing so we quickly left the area. Wouldn't stop me going in but I'd try avoid the march route.

@MariaLuna

I’d like to interject and correct here… circa 600 is right. They were really accomplished in killing security forces though. See graph.

Loyalist paramilitaries and British security forces also killed civilians.

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

I'm just reposting this so people can see what the real face of this is.

@mumsy27 writes:
Let's see where is your allegiance to Britain or Israel.

The sixth example in the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance working definition of antisemitism addresses one of the oldest antisemitic canards, whereby Jewish citizens are accused “of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.”

Simply referred to as the “dual loyalty” charge, antisemites alleges that the true allegiance of Jews is to their fellow Jews and that therefore they are inherently disloyal citizens and cannot be trusted. In casting the Jew as the other, this antisemitic trope, which has existed for thousands of years, has been used to scapegoat, harass, and vilify Jews, and at times has even led to murder.

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/defining-antisemitism-dual-loyalty

@Snugglemonkey

Same.

However having experienced that, I don’t want to be paying several thousand and lose a few days of the holiday/miss out on things we intend to see due to disruption - be that protesters or terror attacks.

For example not being able to get near hotel, nor fly out, so having to pay high for alternative - in 7/7 there were people having to be accommodated in Brighton!! Thankfully we got in early and got a hotel in Gatwick. Only because we recognised it was a bomb/s straight away and the initial announcement about power outage or whatever was bogus, and having gone through it before.

Having experience in (NI) and on holiday previously, I don’t fancy wasting that amount of money for nothing - insurance won’t cover it, will investigate if they can add on a terrorist premium, but I don’t think they have that.

As for walking my kids past something like the protest that went on yesterday with the flares etc…. There’s no way, they’d panic, run off and I’d lose them in all that morass of people.

So yeah, all for the we’re hardened and can cope with this… but would you really want it.

It’s hardly as if Belfast in the 70s/80s was an ideal holiday destination.

@Lostcotter

How has you been confuse with a Muslim?