To think we should avoid London right now?

[StayorgoLDN]

Due to visit London in the next few weeks.

Anxious with Palestinian protests and so forth in the news. I don’t want to be near that with young children, and worried that it may escalate to some sort of attack.

We are not Jews, but presuming as the U.K. is supporting Israel that we’ll all be fair game ie there might be an attack/bomb somewhere prominent to send a message to gov.

Have been in London during terrorist attacks before and I’d rather avoid.

AIBU to consider rescheduling our family trip to next year?

Thing is this has nothing to do with London being dangerous or the theoretical risk of violence due to the situation in the Middle East is it?

It's about the fact that you find travelling with autistic children challenging. Which is totally fair enough.

But what the hell, let's add to the general hysteria and dog-whistling about Israel/Palestine and throw in a big dollop of the obligatory Londonphobia while we're at it.

Sorry, I understand you asking for advice about logistics etc but the other stuff is completely irrelevant and as a Londoner I'm tired of the constant pearl-clutching about it.

@Aavalon57

This thread is about me going on holiday with my family on a long planned trip.

And it is about me deciding whether to spend another £2000 today on that trip in finalising hotel/tickets etc.

It is about me feeling anxious about bringing two disabled children on that trip whenever there has been a chaotic protest where people cheered on terrorism in the locality of where we were going to stay.

And about me asking for peoples opinions of how the situation is now, how they would expect it to play out and how to manage it with the coming days likely to see further unrest.

So yes the thread is centred on me because I am debating whether it is worth it to go on holiday if we can’t stay where we want and may experience disruption.

The thread is not about the awful events that have unfolded/are unfolding in Israel/Palestine.

It is about the feasibility of travel plans with an expanding contentious situation.

From what I’ve gleaned the advice for us specifically would be to move hotel, avoid the tube, take taxis where possible, avoid places like Trafalgar Sq, anywhere near the embassy and be cautious in South Kensington due to recent protests.

Thank you.

And here is the link to the longer news report with details of the absolutely horrendous murder of the pregnant woman and her unborn child.

Again, obviously, trigger warning.

https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1712475724773535920?s=20

I'm sorry I meant to quote a different post there @toadasoda

@Aavalon57
We have autism bookings for the museums, special assistance, autism passes, queue passes, helpers, ear defenders and a bag of calming stuff.

You wouldn’t believe the amount of effort that goes into a trip like this!

I’m not a big fan of disabled people being excluded from things.

The places we are going are accessible and have provision in place, staff are generally wonderful.

My concern is situations we may face while transiting between airport - hotel - attractions. As these are largely out of our control.

I live in London and work in the city. Noticed no difference at all.

This. And it’s all so obvious. Also the grief vulture type stuff really is poor form.

@Crapsummer2023

I can’t understand people on here.

I have been in the situation of coming into London during a terrorist attack and travelling around it in the immediate aftermath. And experienced living in a city with disruption/protest/attacks.
None of that was pleasant and I don’t want to spend money on a repeat performance.

My kids have difficulty communicating and get massively distressed by disruption.

To be clear if I say to them there is a threat you need to do xyz they might not process it. One of them would probably run to go hug protesters and try and join the party!!

If these events had not unfolded I would have had no need to ask for advice and we’d be starting to get excited about a wonderful trip.

As it stands we are having to change travel plans quite significantly.

Walked through Stamford Hill today (for context for non Londoners, this is an area with a large and very visible Orthodox Jewish population)

Can't say I noticed anything different apart from posters up about kidnapped Israelis. Schools open. Apparently more police patrols going on and I did see a police car outside a parade of Jewish shops but nothing very obviously different from usual.
I'm sure they have more security at schools and synagogues than usual (sadly they've have long had more security than normal schools) but certainly still plenty of Orthodox Jews walking around and getting on with their Fridays.

Judaism is complex - some orthodox Jews sects like Netueri Karta which can be found in Stamford Hill are anti-zionists and sometimes burn the Israeli flag...
They believe Jews are not allowed to have their own state until the coming of the Jewish messiah so believe the creation of the state of Israel is against God's will.

London "on the ground" is very much business as normal.

I think there's very much an attitude of "live your life however you like, otherwise terror wins."

If you really are massively uncomfortable with the idea, then obviously don't go. But try not to let "maybes" ruin what would otherwise be a lovely trip.

@BlurredEdges I know, I already corrected the post. Twitter has labelled the photos with a misinformation warning that they are AI generated. That's why I questioned it - which feels fair! We should questions things we hear on social media.

Don't know. When I worked in London it was "severe". Life needs to go on.🙄

@StayorgoLDN

I have been in the situation of coming into London during a terrorist attack and travelling around it in the immediate aftermath. And experienced living in a city with disruption/protest/attacks.
None of that was pleasant and I don’t want to spend money on a repeat performance.

Fine. But those of us who live here have been dealing with this for decades. And millions of people have autistic or ND children and cope perfectly well. I don't have ND children but I have a child with severe asthma and I've had to cancel multiple holidays because of it.

It's stressful, yes and its shit. But we all deal with it. You seem to be centring all of this on you and your family as if you're the only people to have dealt with this unique trauma. Also making it all about London and the Middle East when really it has nothing to do with either of those topics.

My point is this is a religious thing. You can bury your head in the sand all you want. There was a teacher murdered in France, almost to the day another teacher Samuel Paty was murdered and beheaded (coincidence eh, this beheading tic?) 3 years ago. Many of you march behind terror supporting scum in the name of human rights.

No. It would never occur to me not to go.

The kind of place where someone parking in the wrong place gets shared all over social media…that kind of place 😀

Yes we should, but that report comes from a reliable verified source. There are a lot of people who have popped up online in the past couple of days, as more horrific images, videos and witness statements emerge, to claim they're 'AI', 'deepfake', whatever .

Unfortunately, they are not. They are real. They are understandably so horrific that many people would rather believe they are hideous propaganda, rather than facing up to the reality. Which is the stuff of true nightmares. 😟

NK are extremely fringe, to put it politely and don't represent the vast majority of UK Jews. Almost all of us have links to Israel- I have never been there myself but I have personal links to 3 people confirmed dead, 2 missing, and many more friends/family that i am very worried about.

NK were the group that legitimised the only genuinely antisemitic political leader of recent times by posing with him as his "Jewish friends".

Because they too support the annihilation of Israel.

They are really really not typical of British Jews at all. The rest of us have many differences in how we practise or don't practise, how we identify, how we dress or pray (or don't pray), but they are really unrepresentative.

It's a bit like taking the Westboro Baptist Church as representative of Christianity.

I am jewish and needed to travel to central London on the tube today. I was no more worried about a terrorist attack than I was last month.

I was however worried about a personal attack and removed a star of David charm from my bracelet.

Yes. my children are aged 13 and 11 and this week i have spoken to them about never revealing to anyone that I / we are Jewish. DS1 said he had told his class I was Jewish last year when Judaism came up and I confess my blood ran cold because i had not known that.

When the Russian invasion of Ukraine happened I asked my DS to look out for the little Russian girl in his class in case people decided to scape goat her. I am on the side of Ukraine clearly (great GM< born in Odessa and i lived In Ukraine for 3 years) but my thought was that the stupid and ignorant would possibly target her.

I am genuinely afraid that the stupid and ignorant might target my boys - in our little rural village in bucolic rural England.

Update for you about the broken windows

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/23848037.pita-golders-green-restaurant-not-target-hate-crime/

Oh that’s alright then!

update for you on anti semitic assaults - up 324% in a week.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/community-security-trust-tom-tugendhat-hamas-israelis-minister-b2428241.html

Not all of us are callous amoral shits. We have the back of one of the tiniest and most integrated communities in the UK, Okeydokedeva. No equivalence from me.

@mirax thank you. It’s frightening how quickly my family have turned into outsiders, having worked and lived in the Uk all our lives. It’s been sad to see how little businesses or media or anyone have come out in recognition that you might be feeling pretty scared as a Jewish Brit right now.