To cance l a trip to Egypt next summer?

[DrSeuss]

Am well aware that my holiday is the least of the problems facing the Middle East but it is my current dilemma and I need to make a decision.
We were in the process of arranging a three week trip to Egypt for next summer. We would be travelling independently by public transport from one end of the country to the other, accompanied by our thirteen year old daughter, staying in Airbnbs and guest houses and doing our own day trips to see the sights. Before having children, we did this kind of thing all over the world including India and South America and never felt at all unsafe.

However, the current situation has me a bit rattled. There is no way that this will all calm down any time soon. I do not want to expose my daughter to any danger. She has travelled with us in this way in Europe lots of times and we took her on a package holiday to Egypt when she was two. She is used to travelling and all that goes with it but I just don't think we should do this right now. A family of tourists were attacked on Saturday in Alexandria. We don't speak Arabic and are very obviously Northern European to look at so no way will we blend in.
Everything I have booked so far is fully refundable at this point. Should I cancel?

I wouldn't fancy Egypt. I went to the region as a blonde 21yo and was exhausted by the hassle and cat calling, so I couldn't imagine coping as a 13yo. The part of the world doesn't feel safe, and if something does happen, like in Tunisa, I don't feel like the authorities would have your back.

I’m in Egypt currently. I’m an early 20s blonde woman. To be honest I expected the worst and thought I’d be hassled, harassed etc.

I was so pleasantly surprised by Cairo. Obviously it is not like Europe, and there is a huge disparity between rich and poor here. There is a lot of begging and some hassling by vendors, but I found that by just ignoring or saying a flat “no thank you” seemed to keep them at bay.

You can’t drink the water and have to be careful with food. Also you can’t flush paper down some of the toilets! You also need to be mindful of other places you’ve visited (we had a paper Israel visa that luckily we took out).

We are down on the coast now and it’s lovely.

Prague's lovely too in the Czech Republic.

I went with my husband in my twenties, We travelled independently, thinking it would be similar to Morocco but we were so wrong. The amount of harassment I got was shocking, considered I actually had a male companion with me at all times. It's a shame as the sights were amazing, but no, I would not take my kids there.

Have travelled extensively independently pre kids (India South America) have 2 teens. Went to Egypt as a young woman. No way on gods earth would I take my teen girls to the Middle East. Absolutely no way.

I would definitely recommend Poland, it's very underrated as a holiday destination. Czech Republic is also great as previous posters said, unfortunately Prague has become a bit too much with tourism in recent years, but the architecture, culture etc are wonderful.

Having teenage dds has totally drained my appetite for any sort of travel risk that I took for myself as a young woman.

We have had brilliantly successful holidays with ours to southern Germany / Austria and Italy. They loved Rome such a party city.

Long time expat wife and mother here, used to ‘more challenging’ countries, give Egypt a miss and not just for your daughter’s sake. This weekend’s events will set off huge ripple effects across the world.

I went to Egypt with DH before we had DC , I am dark haired and fair skinned (Celtic) so I cover up anyway . We got a bit of hassel but nowhere near what one of our group got , being blonde .

But if you think those Animal Charity adverts on Ch5 are bad , in real life it is awful .
If you have no regard for donkeys and can look away , fair do
If you are anything of an animal lover , heart breaking .
Brooke Animal Hospital does sterling work with working horses and donkeys , but some tragic cases

Egypt is not for me

It was 10yr ago now but DH and I tried to independently travel around Egypt with another couple, I was early 20s and am short and quite young looking. We diverted to Morocco quite early. I am very pale, blonde and blue eyed. Our female friend is white but tans easily and has dark brown hair/eyes. We were all shocked by the difference in levels of harassment she and I got. I was shouted at, groped, had men trying to drag me away from DH. This was despite dressing v modestly. I found it really upsetting. I would not take an obviously northern European teen to Egypt, especially outside an organised group type setting.

This exactly. No way would I travel in this way in Egypt.

I've travelled in Egypt what you might call semi independently. I've also travelled fairly extensively in the rest of the world (not South America). I absolutely wouldn't take a young teenage DD to Egypt. And that's before the middle east was going to hell in a handbasket.

I would.

If you want something a little bit more unusual but European-level safe and respectful towards women and young girls, how about Georgia?

What puts me off is where to go on holiday is such a whim you could so easily not go and go somewhere else. If you did go somewhere edgy and something happened to your child you would never forgive yourself.

I went “independently” as a couple no kids but hotels rather than airbnbs. (As in we booked all our connections and hotels.)

I find hotels much less variable and I enjoy planning a day trip with hotel - done this in a lot of countries - including Arabic ones that I was travelling alone in. However, it is more expensive but you have a vetted driver to take you around (even if in his beat up taxi.) There’s a heavy tipping culture and craft excursions are just “shopping” trips. Government shops don’t inflate prices above the sticker if you do want to shop.

People get pissed with you if you’re not buying but I find this the same everywhere. It’s just how much someone will say it to your face. Rudest I’ve been treated in a shop is in Bavaria and the UK.

We did do the fancy Nile cruise powered by sails which was worth it but found ourselves more bothered in a group than as a couple.

Know friends who work out there but it’s a different situation (and area). Don’t go in summer. It will push 40-45 plus. You will only have aircon in your room.

If your gut instinct is that it’s not a good idea (and I’d agree!) then go with that and cancel.

I agree

In my twenties, two female friends travelled to a resort in Egypt. They ended up spending all their time with a family they met as if they were part of it as they felt so vulnerable. They couldn’t wait for the moment their flight left as they were quite frightened. I’m sure this is a horrible exception but I thought I’d share. But I also have a couple of friends who really enjoyed their holiday in a resort there.

I’d absolutely cancel though due to events unfolding.

Yes, you should cancel. And I’ve travelled vastly in Europe, Africa and Asia including in countries considered by many to be unsafe, and currently live abroad now, but Egypt is not a country I’d consider doing this in. Ever, but especially not now.

I've been to both Berlin and Vienna and loved both cities.

There are some aspects to Berlin which could be quite sobering for a young teenager, so I would consider Vienna. I think that a teenage girl would probably like the Spanish Riding School - I did, when I went there as a teenager!

Can I also gatecrash? I'm about to travel to Istanbul/southern Turkey and some southern Greek islands (Crete etc.) I've never travelled in the area before so I have no idea what to expect. Is this a good idea or not?

went to Egypt in the summer with dh dd15 and ds11. The amount of unwanted attention my dd got was relentless. When we went to Cairo, the airport, or really anywhere other than the hotel, I had to accompany her to the toilet because of man following her. The men weren’t event respectful when she was with us as her parents. Several times I think she was watched when she was in the room alone and workmen let themselves in using a keycard (three times in a two week holiday- currently going through complaints process) we got scammed on an Uber.
a girl (17) from the hotel was sexually assaulted in a busy group of people, and on another occasion a taxi went off road with her and her dad in it and said unless they paid £££ he’d leave them there.

No way would I do anything on my own without a guide. And I say that as someone well travelled and with an Egyptian family member- even he wouldn’t be happy about us going alone, particularly with dd and I have him at the end of the phone to speak Arabic if needed.

the situation with Israel wouldn’t impact my plans unless I was going close to the border at the moment,

I agree with this. We walked to the beach one day and back to the hotel (me, a female friend and our kids) and yes got hassled. We had plans to go to the town/market and never actually went due to our experience and also reports from other people (couples) in the hotel. We did an organised quad bike excursion which was fine. In the hotel it was fine and it had such a great waterpark that the kids just wanted to stay anyway.

I've travelled solo through India, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh, as well as China and Thailand, but Egypt .... this really is another level of hassle. It is insane. In remote parts of Pakistan, they will stare, yes. Not surprising as they hardly see women outside their own families. But in Egypt, it's another level. The men have no shame - not only in terms of following you / general harassment; but also trying to rip you off anywhere and everywhere. Eg, you clearly agree a price for a taxi before you get in it, then once in, they act as if that conversation never happened and demand double what you agreed. This happens all the time. They are shameless. In Egypt, I was with my (now) husband. It didn't stop them. Men constantly taking photos, stalking you, coming up blatantly and asking if you are married; trying to grope you and separate you from your husband. You buy something in shops, they say they will box it up for you - then they put something else - or nothing - in the box! It's like there is no sense of basic standards or integrity. When challenged they act crazy and just laugh in your face. The treatment of animals is appalling. Also, Egypt has the highest rate of FGM in the world. I think it's about 85% of women. Such a shame because it's a beautiful place and the history is second to none. But the mentality and lack of basic respect is appalling. That's without what's going in just over the border.