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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who will get the house? Probate question

20 replies

Forgetmenot94 · 09/10/2023 21:25

sadly my D relative has terminal cancer and treatment options have ran out. He has a wife but she is currently going through tests due to symptoms of dementia. They have two grown up children. We are all trying to sort everything out, it’s been a stressful time. My relative has a brother and his daughter (relatives niece) is currently renting out the property they both own together. She is in a fixed term. (it was inherited from their mum and both relative and his brother are both named on the deeds). There is currently no will in place and due to the cancer spread (brain mets) he has lost a lot of cognitive function. Does any one know legally who the house himself and his brother own will go to should anything happen to my D relative. Thank you

OP posts:
Forgetmenot94 · 09/10/2023 21:31

Hi. Sorry, please can I ask for this to be moved to legal matters? Posted on wrong bit. Thank you.

OP posts:
VickyEadieofThigh · 09/10/2023 21:32

The man's wife, I would think. Her dementia would not affect her inheritance from her husband.

seathewayahead · 09/10/2023 21:37

Sounds tricky as what is legally the case may be difficult with family tenants etc if I’m right in understanding that the terminally ill relative and the brother own the house together, which is lived in by the relatives niece?

i think the legal answer will depend how the house is owned. If the brother and relative own the house together as joint tenants, the brother will inherit the whole house - which he can do with what he wants / then leave to whoever by will. If the brother and relative are tenants in common, the share that belongs to your relative would pass by his will. If he doesn’t have one, then it would pass by inheritance laws, so to his wife, assuming still alive. that doesn’t mean the niece has to move out though.

Mellowautumnmists · 09/10/2023 21:38

Where is the house in question?

seathewayahead · 09/10/2023 21:52

But @Mellowautumnmists is right. It will depend where the house is. I always presume when it’s not specified it’s UK and england/wales but of course that is a stupid assumption.

Mellowautumnmists · 09/10/2023 21:55

@seathewayahead we all make these assumptions don't we and then the OP says that the house is in Outer Mongolia.

Assuming the house is in England and Wales I agree with your response by the way!

MereDintofPandiculation · 09/10/2023 22:01

Forgetmenot94 · 09/10/2023 21:31

Hi. Sorry, please can I ask for this to be moved to legal matters? Posted on wrong bit. Thank you.

If you still want it moved to legal, use the button to report your own thread, select "other" and ask for it to be moved.

Forgetmenot94 · 09/10/2023 22:12

Thanks everyone. Yes in the UK

OP posts:
Mellowautumnmists · 09/10/2023 22:15

@Forgetmenot94 England or Wales?

RB68 · 09/10/2023 22:44

this might be useful

Who can inherit if there is no will – the rules of intestacy - Citizens Advice

It will be a while before its sorted though so alot depends on how long the tenancy is for. As its not the residential property (an asset held for other purposes) it forms part of his estate and the law will dictate what happens to it or the value of it. The first port of call is to apply for letters of administration and if his wife is deemed not competent this could be done by his brother or by his children (often depends on who gets in first and the courts decision). This appoints the Executor or Administrator of the will who then applies the law to distribute the estate. They have to find out about all his assets and debts and pay off anything owing including the funeral from the estate, then when you know the value its sent to the Court of Probate for them to agree the appt. Any inheritance tax is payable at this point, you may have to negotiate this with HMRC if there is no cash in the estate to meet this and for e.g. a house needs selling.

Whilst all this is going on and it can take months, rent is still payable (to the estate) and any maintenance on the property should be maintained also by the estate (certainly the deceased's share of it).

Also you need to be aware if any fees need to be paid for your relative's wife it may be worth making sure money is in her name now rather than leaving it where it is as it could be tied up for a while - it need only be in an account in joint names as that would automatically become the wifes property on his death as I understand it.

If it is your father or step parent and all his children are in agreement its worth considering which accounts money is in and talking to your parent about it. I would document what you do though so that you are covered if things go wrong for any reason.

Its really worth researching what to do when someone dies and making a list of what order to do things so you don't get caught out e.g. how will funeral be paid for and from where, banks can release monies to funeral directors directly but only if there is money in the account. Everyone requires original death certificate and copies of the letters of Administration (or probate and the will) so doing things in the right order makes things go more smoothly - so hit the big amounts first to release monies to the estate, it is worth opening a separate bank account for all this in and out of money if you do the administration yourself, keeps it all separate from your own money and helps you keep account of distribution etc - open and transparent to others

Sure you will pick lots of other things up. The .gov website is also excellent for walking you through things

Who can inherit if there is no will – the rules of intestacy

Information on who can and cannot inherit if someone dies without making a will. Covers married couples, civil partners, children and other relatives.

https://cdn.develop.content.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy/

DixonD · 09/10/2023 22:48

The property is owned in joint names with his brother? It depends on how the property is held. If joint tenants, the brother will inherit automatically. If tenants in common it will go to his wife, dementia or not (England).

Alstroemeria123 · 09/10/2023 22:48

Doesn’t it also depend on how the property is owned if it’s in England / Wales? If it’s tenants in common then his share is likely to go to his wife, but if it’s joint tenants than wouldn’t it automatically go to the other owner?

Elvis1956 · 09/10/2023 22:48

Op in England at least the wife will inherit his estate including his share of the house. Should she precede him, then the two children will inherit. That's what happened when my parents died interstate (without a will). Someone on the wife's behalf will have to file for probate. Given the size of the estate it could be worth sorting via a solicitor who could also deal with the court of protection should the wife not have mental capacity and they can appoint someone to look after her interests.
As there is no will, the joint house with the brother does not pass to the brother.

Riverlee · 09/10/2023 22:49

Sorry, I’m a bit confused. Who owns the house - your relative, or relative+brother?

If relative, see info above about what happens without a will.

if relative + brother, i think you need legal,help. I presume relatives half will,go,to wife as above.

DixonD · 09/10/2023 22:49

Alstroemeria123 · 09/10/2023 22:48

Doesn’t it also depend on how the property is owned if it’s in England / Wales? If it’s tenants in common then his share is likely to go to his wife, but if it’s joint tenants than wouldn’t it automatically go to the other owner?

Yes.

Quartz2208 · 09/10/2023 22:52

Scotland has different rules to England/wales

are they tenants in common or joint tenants

GunboatDiplomacy · 09/10/2023 22:57

Elvis1956 · 09/10/2023 22:48

Op in England at least the wife will inherit his estate including his share of the house. Should she precede him, then the two children will inherit. That's what happened when my parents died interstate (without a will). Someone on the wife's behalf will have to file for probate. Given the size of the estate it could be worth sorting via a solicitor who could also deal with the court of protection should the wife not have mental capacity and they can appoint someone to look after her interests.
As there is no will, the joint house with the brother does not pass to the brother.

The wife doesn't automatically get everything. If he's intestate she will get (simplified slightly) the first 270,000 from the estate plus half of anything over that, and the children will get the rest.

But if the family home is co-owned with her as joint tenants, and if the house Co-owned with the brother is held as joint tenants, then each house would go straight to the co-owner and not be part of the estate and probate at all.

seathewayahead · 10/10/2023 08:09

OP really needs to address who actually owns the house and how. which I guess could be tricky given the position, but perhaps the brother will know, or it should be evident from the registration docs at land registry presuming it is registered and they didn’t inherit it decades ago.

If the brother is a joint tenant with the relative (ie the two brothers own it together but not as tenants in common) on the relatives death it will just pass to the brother and not form part of the relatives estate at all, so intestacy rules irrelevant. (Unless by UK it is Scotland in which case I’m not sure).

seathewayahead · 10/10/2023 08:11

This thread alone shows why you may well need a probate solicitor as you’ve had several different answers!

orangesandapples001 · 10/10/2023 22:48

Check the deeds who is on it and if there's survivorship.

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