I'm drifting from my parents over parenting style & alcohol

[DGGR]

I've always idolised my parents especially my mother. Until I had children, and slowly but surely I've drifted from them.
My mother's parenting style is definitely authoritative and based on guilt and shame. It wasn't until my son turned 3 I had memories of silent treatment and constant anxiety that I wasn't making her happy.
They say they want to see the kids (I now have 2) but never actually put in the effort. And are usually unavailable because they like to go away most weekends. I'm happy for them as they are workaholics and have earned it. But struggle to mix with them because they're of the era where kids are seen and not heard and parents get drunk, and the kids just go to bed early kinda thing. So I personally struggle with a boozy weekend and my kids (I don't like to drink around them).
Plus my Dad isn't a nice drunk.
My mum was abused... So they've definitely worked hard to give me the life they didn't and I respect them for that. But there's a big sense of control, she has to have a say in what you do and if you don't follow her advice (even in trivial things) she won't speak to you for days.
So it's just exhausting and I don't have time to dwell on that anymore.
She's also incredibly jealous if my in laws. As they're retired, love kids, and have been a big help having them for me to go to work.
Here's the issues...
They're desperate to take my son away for a weekend in their campervan (he's almost 5).
BUT my dad has a history if getting drunk when minding them and leaving it all to my mum which I'm uncomfortable with. I've said this to them as openly as I can, and it hasn't landed well. It tends to have the opposite effect and then he just drinks more. He has set drinking nights of the week. And absolutely will not stop drinking that night no matter what the plans. He also won't eat when he drinks either so family meals etc etc are a real challenge.
My mother has now asked me to 'trust' her and let them take him away, and that she has found ways to slow down my father's drinking but that you can't be obvious about it.
When I asked if I could come too (they wanted to go to lego land) with my youngest son. She's said no, it would spoil the dynamic so they activily don't want me to come.
The thing is.. That's bonkers to me... They don't see him or spend time with him, but want to take him away and make a point of me not being there?
But I feel guilty for it!!
Secondly... We've always done Christmas Dinner at theirs late... Because my father won't eat in the day.
Now I've got 2, it's a bit of a stress going over theirs as it's not really kid friendly and they're not relaxed about the house. Now mine aren't terrors who are destructive, but I've found they play up more at theirs, because I'm on pins they don't touch anything or make crumbs, and it's just not an enjoyable experience and it certainly doesn't bring the best out in them.
So I've suggested we do dinner at mine this year (literally a 2 min walk up the road). We did it before with my in laws too, to try and tie things in a few years ago, but stopped when I was pregnant.
My mum is chill about this, but has uninvited herself... They basically don't want to come to mine.
There was talk of sharing the cooking tasks, but then she just decided they're not coming. She says it's because of my father's drinking and she's worried he'll upset me if I bring dinner earlier and he won't eat. But I also think it's because she's created such a personal issue with my in laws that she doesnt want to be around them.
It also feels contradictory that she says she can curb my father's drinking to take my son away, but not enough to be able to spend Christmas with us.
I don't know what to do.

You talk about control and guilt-shaming when you were younger - this is exactly what your mum is still trying to do. It's the same behaviour.
Trying to guilt-trip you into letting your son go on a holiday after you've clearly said no.
Trying to manipulate the family at Christmas to get her way.
She can't control your father's drinking and it's not about that anyway, it's about her getting what she wants.
Well done for not caving in so far.
You need to decide what your boundaries are based on what you feel comfortable with and what you want, and then grey rock your mum "sorry I've already said that won't work for me, we can do x or y instead", rinse and repeat, if she won't speak to you for a week afterwards that's on her.

some of your story is similar to mine. I am now very very low contact. It’s certainly easier than dealing with the juggling. But it doesn’t stop the guilt.

firstly the camping, just say no, (i know easier said than done!). They don’t know him. Say you’re not comfortable as they haven’t spent a great deal of time with him, he’s still little and when he’s tired he may be upset etc and they don’t know his routine. Either you come or he doesn’t. You can leave them to it at lego land but the evening and camping, no, unless your there.

christmas, just have it at yours. They either come or they don’t. As someone who tried to manage Christmas with tricky family. You just end up ruining yours for the sake of theirs.
the children will be wired, want to be at home and play with their toys etc. again just say it’s yours or no.

i still feel an overwhelming sadness that my children don’t have the engaged grandparents they deserve. And I’m so sad, as they are fucking amazing kids. I had a great relationship with mine, so know what mine are missing. However, my children don’t know what they are missing. We fill the gap (I hope).

even if you give your mum everything she wants, they will not be the grandparents you hope they can be. So cut your losses, put in boundaries and spend time with the ones who do truly care

I have issues with my family. My mum and sister when I'd just had my second child (and also had a toddler) made me run up and down the stairs from the kitchen to the living room fetching food and drink for them, stuffed themselves full with snacks I'd bought to last the whole week and then didn't eat the Christmas dinner my husband went to an effort to cook. Repeatedly left the stair gate open endangering my toddler so I had to rush as quickly as I could so they weren't unattended with him. Just an absolute nightmare and after that I put my foot down and said I'm not hosting again. However they didn't have the capability to host properly, so what I've done every year since is I've gone for a set amount of time (one to two hours) ahead of Christmas, say around 23rd. I can leave on my own terms and though it's not child safe at theirs particularly, I keep a close eye on my three kids and 'tick the box' so to speak by having just some easy Christmas snacks with them and bring stuff to contain the kids or keep them occupied. Maybe you could compromise and say you'd like to set up a new tradition of going round for some evening Christmas snacks and a short Christmas film before the kids' bedtime? Then your dad is eating late but you'll have already eaten. If they're two minutes down the road it might be doable? And I would say do it before Christmas so you can relax on Christmas Day.

I would say no to camping. Alcohol and children don't mix. End of.
As far as Christmas, I would compromise. You have dinner at yours (without them) and then pop over to do the gifts and tea at their house. They can take it or leave it.

Def say no to the camping - that actually sounds dangerous to your little one, they will have forgotten how quick children can move, and if he doesn't know them, he won't listen o them anyway.

FOG - fear obligation and guilt - read 'toxic parent' but Susan forward.

Christmas - they are invited, it is up to them if they don't come. Mine also did this. The sulked when they weren't invited in the years that followed.

Boundaries boundaries boundaries.

Maybe setup some fake rules that allows your mum to feel like she is in control of you, like you 'hate' your son wearing purple clothes. Or you 'hate' a kids TV program. Or 'hate' the idea of getting a comic. Just sit back an watch how suddenly those things appears from your parents............

The line about you idolising your mum jumped out at me. Because I've never met someone who idolised their mum who hadn't been severely socialised by their mums to be that way.

It's normal to go through teen rebellions, and through a period of adjustment where you realise that your parents are normal fallible humans. Not your best friend or your worst enemy.

I think that for years you tried to please your mother and do what she wanted. If you did not do this you got the silent treatment or possibly verbal abuse. You now beginning to see what your life was like growing up and being honest you not willing to put up with her behaviour any longer.

I would not let her bring your son camping and your father drinking at the same time. She has spent very little time with your child and does not know him well. Along with that drinking and having or minding small kids is a recipe for trouble. A young child does not need to see his grandfather drunk, by upset or put into a possible dangerous situation by his grandparents.

In regards to Christmas day I would not got to their house. Your father is sitting there drinking. Your worried the kids will do say or break something. It not a nice day for you, your husband and kid's. Instead I would have Christmas at home and ask them around for dinner.
If they don't want to come that fine. Go and see them early in the afternoon some day after Christmas and have some excuse to leave after a short period of time. Bring your parents Christmas presents then. Bring some little toys for your kids to play with as well when they are here.

Your right to set boundaries now with her in your own mind. She might not like this but you have to think of yourself and you own family.
One of my friends has a mother similar to yours. My friend decided a few years ago to set boundaries with her. She started to say no and was not always available to do things either.
My friend said it was hard at 1st but I am happier now and I am making plans to suit me and not her.

There is no reason to feel guilty for not allowing your 5 year old to go away with them. I definitely wouldn’t.

I feel you’ve slightly skimmed over the emotional abuse from your own childhood (silent treatment, etc) which is still continuing now.

I agree with others - decide what your boundaries are, and stick to them.

It is normal and acceptable to not want young children around drunk adults.

You shouldn't feel guilty about prioritising your child's welfare. There's no way they can be trusted to keep him safe so don't let them have any unsupervised access.

As for Christmas, do what suits you and if your parents don't come well that's their loss. I'm a granny and I've had my turn at Christmas decisions - we fit in with whatever our adult children decide now because it's their turn to create the family Christmases they want. You're a parent now so put your own family first and ditch the guilt.

Absolute no to them taking your little boy away without you. GF gets nasty drunk and neither of them are patient with him. Just the drinking is enough of a reason to say no.

What is it with these GPs who are "desperate" to take children away without the parents, or have other "alone time", when the parents don't want that? And when the GPs have never been engaged or helpful with the kids? They always sound like they want the child for their own entertainment, not for the child's benefit. And to be able to "parent" the child in ways they know the parents disapprove of.

Stick to your guns, OP. Your gut is telling you to not trust them, so don't!

Your priority should be for your own family now, especially the kids, and if they can't accept that that's their problem.

It's not your fault your in-laws are so great with the kids either. Or that you want your kids to actually enjoy Christmas day!

I think you know you're right, you just need to find a way to drop the guilt, because you have nothing to feel guilty about.

Your father sounds vile and your mother not much better.

YANBU

It sounds as if your mother spends her life on eggshells tiptoeing around your DF’s alcoholism. That’s her choice. Your choice is to live your life in your way.

Camping is a crazy idea.
Christmas is going to be done your way to suit your family. If they decide not to come that’s fine ( sounds way better). They are invited and that’s literally all you need to do.

What @VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji said.

Especially this:

cut your losses, put in boundaries and spend time with the ones who do truly care

edited to add - definitely read Susan Forward's book:

FOG - fear obligation and guilt - read 'toxic parent' by Susan Forward.

Hello OP. I'm the adult child of two alcoholics and so much of what you've written resonates with me.

My dad was also the heavier drinker and my mum would try to manage it in company. It's absolutely farcical when I write it down.

I've moved thousands of miles away from mine and only see them twice a year when they come to stay: it is still a huge source of stress to me. I highly recommend two books on this: google adult child/alcoholic and they will come up.

You are absolutely doing the right thing by your child by refusing to let him stay with them. I would go as low contact as you can with them. They are messed up and toxic and no good can come from it.

My heart goes out to you and I wish you all the love and strength in the world to deal with this. You are not alone.

A small child in a new place needs sober adult supervision and why would you give them the opportunity to start mistreating your son give him silent treatment or manipulative him! Say you feel that he’s too young and you’re not comfortable with it at the moment. No is a whole answer this is your child you need to keep safe you gave them the opportunity for you to come too so you have already tried to compromise just tell them No!

Your parents, and your relationship with them is dysfunctional. I'm sorry, trust me i understand it really hurts to realise this. They are your parents and its understandable you love them, but it isn't ok to expose your innocent children to alcoholics and those who enable alcoholics....that just continues the dysfunction.

I recommend looking up Adult Children of Alcoholics, they have a lot of online resources you might find helpful.

Thanks everyone. I used to laugh we were dysfunctional when I was younger but since having my son I realise it's also not very nice. Although I did have a good childhood, and never wanted for anything so always feel guilty questioning it.
Also I have a younger sibling who is a lot younger than me and in a different stage in their life, where they still dote on them. Plus they have seen a better side of them than me, as I feel I broke their relationship and my sibling fixed it (10 years apart).
But when I check in with them we're just not on the same page about it so I feel like the aggro one of the family.
My biggest fear is the reason for saying no to camping. I've made it about the drink so far, but to be honest I am concerned about the discipline element from my mother. But I absolutely feel sick at the thought of telling her that. I've touched on it a bit just ad hoc when we are together and she is trying her best to change the language she uses. So I know she's trying, she just doesn't have the best tools because of her own upbringing.
He has stayed there in the past, when I was in hospital having my second etc. But my sibling lives there, and is great with him. And I feel its easier at home.
So maybe that confuses them as well, because they've had him in the past.
Appreciate all the responses.

This is so interesting. There's always been issues over what I let him watch, I asked them to only show U graded and that was an issue... Always questioned.
And then whenever we transfer each other money for this or that, she insists on using my old personal accounts. Not my joint account with my husband which is the only one I use. Even though I've asked her more than once. Now she just uses my savings account which I don't even know how she got 🤷🏼‍♀️

@DGGR yeah it is so funny isn’t it, and when you pick things that you don’t really care about then it shows the bat shit response perfectly.

like I hate spiders so my mum would keep buying dc clothing covered in …… spiders! Just weird

I assume it was subconscious but either way 10 years on and it hasn’t changed so best work out a long term plan to deal with them.