To expect my colleagues to behave like adults in the office? Very long rant!

[Charlene1]

I am seriously having "issues" with these people! Have already posted about some of them in Employment issues", but need to know if I am being oversensitive/unreasonable etc.

2 of my colleagues are best mates and have frequently referred to me as "stupid cow", "fat fucker in the corner" etc when they didn't know I was listening, told me to "stick my training up my arse" that I was supposed to do with them, take the piss out of everyone else, are two faced and smarmy to other staff/managers etc. I don't sit near them thankfully, so they think I can't hear them - but I can!

They run down to the toilet after me or the the other women go and see/sniff if we've poohed (seriously) and sprayed air freshener to cover it up, then come back, make vomiting noises, say "it smells", and call us "dirty bitches" behind our backs (I overheard them) for going to the toilet at work. We have one toilet for all the women.

They shouted loudly the other week that whoever had spilled stuff/stunk the microwave out was dirty and put a sign up saying "clean it after use". I had used it for a ready meal which split so it smelled, but I cleaned it up and other colleague saw me cleaning up - obviously missed a bit though, and there was already dried on stuff from someone else - so I feel like I can't heat food up or go to the toilet anymore - I can't afford to eat out everyday, and sandwiches just don't fill me up all day.
They piss about deciding what to have for their dinner and expect other people to get it from the shop and told me once they were going the chippy but I couldn't have doner emat as it stunk, so they would get me something else. If I don't ask them if they are coming the shop/going out they moan and bitch that we've not asked them and they have to go for their own dinner.
They never make cups of tea - they expect to be waited on all day, and they have told the office junior previously to "get downstairs and make me some cereal" etc.

They refuse to do work I need them to do so I can do my job, whinge if I copy the boss in on emails asking them to do things; refuse to do any training or use the new office system, so I have to do it all etc. They just snigger and bitch. I have emailed my boss and their boss to say they are not using it, but have not said about the bitching, as they would just deny it and flutter their eyelashes at them (Boss thinks they're brilliant). They think they're indispensable and have just got rid of their manager by grassing him up for something so he got the sack as he was to thick to realise he was being set up by them.

Today, I said to 2 other people I thought were "acquaintances" at least that 50 odd year old women shouldn't work in school offices, as it takes jobs away from mums with school age kids that can't afford childcare - I meant women of over 60 etc, but it came out wrong, as they are around 50, but only look early 40's. We were talking about jobs, hours and pay etc at the time so it was just part of the conversation!

They both proceeded to "rip my head off" and rant I didn't know how lucky I was today to have flexi hours and tax credits etc, and at their age they should work less hours - I said yes, but they don't have to do it in a school - our town's school offices are full of older women with grown up kids, who have been there for years - so no chance of anyone getting the jobs, staying until their kids are older then leaving to let someone else have the hours they need. I know loads of mums who'd love a job share in a school office.
I said I wasn't being offensive to them, just that it was my opinion, not personal to them at all.

They bitched about me for about an half an hour, looking over occasionally and whispering, and then ignored me the rest of the afternoon; they told the other "harpies" (DP's name for them!! what I'd said, didn't say bye etc at hometime.
They always think they know better than me from cleaning products, tantrums, work etc because they are older and have grown up kids so talk down to me about most things, but I accepted that up to now as I recognise, yes they have more life experience, but they shouldn't shout me down and tell me I am wrong to express my opinion on anything should they??

If you've got this far, thanks for reading!

So, AIBU about the way they are all behaving towards me?

Well Charlene, it sounds like they are bullying you, so how do you think you should behave towards bullies?

I think your comment about 50 year olds was rude and untrue.

but I think you should report their bullying to your superior.

Is it possible that you are being judgemental of them though?

"50 odd year old women shouldn't work in school offices, as it takes jobs away from mums with school age kids"

Am pulling you up about this again Charlene1

Don't you know that ageism is illegal?

In the same way as racism and sexism is?

Yay! which procedures do you have in place in your office?

do you have a line manager you can explain the situation to?

who supervises them?

Well nasty!

Cam, have replied on my other thread, but it was just a slip of the tongue mentioning an age. Like I said, I wasn't trying to offend anyone, and they were talking down to me at the time and I had had enough.
Carmenere - I don't know whether to ignore them and carry on being "fake nice" or cause a big bust up, or just keep quiet and leave - running away again!
Beanie, how am I being judgemental though?

MrsJackJohnson - they report to the same person I do, who think they are brilliant, as do all the directors, so am stuck really on that score.

It is of course utter rubbish that women over 50 should just disappear from the workplace to accommodate mothers. That said I can see how it might be tempting to say that to a pair of nasty old trouts like those two.
My personal policy would be to laugh at them, bullies need to be stood up to. to a certain extent you are giving them permission to behave like that towards you. I would cc every email to your boss. I would complain every time they made an uncalled for comment. They don't think you will bite back, you should.

Is it fair of the people in her office to be bullying her? No.

I'm not in favour of ageism, but in this cae it sounds like she's dealing with some real swines.

you could always BCC the boss so the trouts don't know - it may make them stop whinging about that at least.

Report them - if the boss doesn't take it seriously then go over his head

Agree hungrypanda but it isn't because of their age

I've experienced "young" people being bullies as well

I can't believe these are grown up women you're talking about as they sound incredibly childish and very nasty. I don't think you helped matters though with your comments which you seemed to have aimed specifically at them. It's understandable that you feel hurt by their silly behaviour but you have just given them even more reason to bully you.

Keep a diary for a week, of what they say/do, dates/times etcc... then go to your boss. If he ignores, keep on with the diary, and try again, then go over his head.

There is NO reason for bullying anyone, no matter what their opinion!! This is disgracefull!!

Seriously you should report them, agree with carmanere- you should laugh at them

Message withdrawn

Ok - so you have dug a small hole for yourself with the age comment.

However, in the grand scheme of things it is minor to what is happening to you.

You should definately keep cc your boss on all emails as you are then able to prove that they are not doing their job.

Do you have a HR manager - maybe you could ask them for advice - let them know there is a problem but that you are trying to find a constructive way to deal with it informally.

Then if things get worse at least you have tried to make the situation better.

Main thing is to keep your head up.

xx

How awful - I would HATE to work in an environment like that. I personally think you should go straight to HR!!! My goodness if anyone at my work was treated like that my company would have a law suit on its hands!

have you anyone who can support you at work can you start looking for another job life is too short to spend your days with people like that

Calling a colleague any of the names you have mentioned here is probably enough to have disciplinary procedures started. They sound utterly vile and -more to the point - totally unprofessional.

You must
a. write down specific instances of bullying with times, dates and ideas of who else may have witnessed them so that when you speak to your boss/HR you have evidence to back up what has been going on
b. maintain a composure of utter serenity and politeness
c. I would probably apologise re the over 50 remark, intentional or otherwise.
d. kebabs in the office - yuck. i think not

Keep your chin up.

this is bullying and if you have a HR department go there now.. tell them or your boss immediately...

they sound so bitter that I would porb. look for another job while at it, but as this seems to be a clulture there ensure you speak to your Boss/supervisor or HR department first....

good luck and chin up.

Sorry I've not been back to this thread - thanks everyone for all your advice - keeping a diary is a good idea - I made notes but it sounds so petty e.g.
Monday 9.15 am - all ignored me when I said good morning. 10.00 - A3 tried door handle when I was in toilet to make me hurry up. 10.45 A1 and A3 sat complaining how disgusting it was that "someone" had poohed in the toilet and sprayed air freshener after flushing.
1pm Bitched about where I was getting my dinner from.
2pm Ignored my emails requesting them to get some bloody work done on things I need to complete but need them to give me info (instead of screeching down the phone to their friend in the other office so that the people I am cold calling can hear how unprofessional we are and won't buy from me)
3pm Ignore a follow up email (blind copied to boss) asking why X wasn't done.
3.45 On getting a direct email from my boss telling them to do X (grrr, he blew my cover!!!), proceed to bitch in the corner and then ask me why I'd blind copied the boss in as "I don't need to do that" - I stuttered and pretended I'd meant to put it as cc but did it wrong as I was sending out external emails at the same time and got mixed up - why did I not havethe balls to say "because you're a childish bitch and I want him to know how many times you've ignored me!!!??
5pm Ignore me but say bye to everyone else.
Tues - ignore me all day, refer to me as "the fat cow" to our rep, expect me to get them food from the shop as they can't be arsed to go.
Today - A1 and A3 went out to get lunch and didn't ask anyone if they wanted anything.
Refer to my emails and passed on work as "shit, crap, stupid cow" etc.
Interfere with work I am discussing with a rep - nothing to do with their work but they wanted to know what I was doing and the rep told them thinking I couldn't hear etc.
See how childish this sounds????

I have made it to a year in this job - the board has said today how pleased they are with some work I did for them last week (I think colleagues suspect I am "undercover" or something because of this - but I would have told them what I was working on if they asked as part of a "pass the time of day" conversation - it's not a secret!!)
Why should I have to leave, but how can I stay - I will get nowhere with my boss or one of the directors, but if I tell tales to the other directors, then it makes me look weak and unable to cope with my work environment. If challenged they will deny it and arse lick so far they'll be up to the director's stomach. I can't be fake to play them at their own game - I just don't know how and couldn't keep it up for long anyway.
I kid you not, I have work outstanding from last year as they just don't think I am important enough to tell them to do it. My boss said previously "tell them it has to be done" - they ignore me and him.
I cannot do my job properly as they won't give me what I need to do it - they purposely withold information to make me look stupid then feign innocence, or say "you need to find this out from so and so" in a fake sing sing voice whilst smirking and tittering behind their monitors to each other - er no love - that's YOUR job - certainly not my department.
I am getting zero results at work as they can't be arsed to work with me - they work against me and I am getting more and more demotivated - which will get me the sack if my boss notices, so they've won.
I can't look at these threads at work, as they log in as me to see what I have been doing on the computer, so thanks in advance for any more advice - it is much appreciated, as I have PMT as well and feel like shit today!!!!

What a horrendous, horrendous time you are having.

Only two possible thoughts at the moment. One is to avoid using email with them, except as confirmation of stuff you have already discussed. I have to say that I would regard it as bad practice to make any management communication with people via email - it is really, really easy to get people on the raw via email when you had NO intention of doing so. It was daft of your boss to email them too, not helpful.

The other is to divide and rule. Could you move one of them somewhere else - could you swap desks with one of them? Put a screen up so that they can't meet each other's eyes? Once one of them is somewhere else, meet each of them by themselves in a scheduled meeting and have a full-on appraisal, giving them objectives for this week/this month/this year, with a review in a couple of weeks to see how's it's going. Preferably separate their areas of work if at all possible so they work as little as you can manage it with each other.

They sound truly vile. One day they will leave, or retire. The day will come.

when you are keeping a diary, if you don;t want it to look petty then leave out the stuff about how they don;t say hello or goodbye, or don;t offer to go to the shops, because you are right it sounds petty - I know its not nice, but you will not be taken seriously by the management.

You need to keep a copy of the times when work hasn;t been done and times when they have name called.

I like choosyfloosy's idea of dividing them and giving them individual appraisals. You need to be more assertive with them - if you are their manager, you are not there to be their friend

Thanks guys - unfortunately I'm not their direct manager - I can ask them to do work because I can't do everything (time/them witholding info on purpose) and the idea of the new system is to get them using it so I don't have to do it all and everyone gets comfortable using it. They just refuse to do anything or ignore me, so I started putting it in mail so I'd get evidence of their response. The directors asked me to make sure they did it last year. I have sent numerous emails asking for it to be done. Boss has emailed them telling them to do it.
I emailed again today asking when it would be done - the reply was "our work takes priority, so yours won't be done".
The work involved is as simple as changing a name or phone number on a database. I can't do it as I don't actually know the info (she has denied knowing it when she does as I've seen paperwork that quite clearly shows the relevant info) - and why should I anyway when they have been told to do it??
I am "a separate department" in a way but am supposed to work with them - they work against me.
Choosy - they have been separated before because of this behaviour so I discussed banding together with some others in the office to complain about them formally - whether we'll "dare" to do it, I don't know, because I dread the atmosphere afterwards. I would like them to move to another company personally, but I would feel sorry for the staff there!
I definitely need to keep a work related only diary!! It will have a lot of entries in it.

Right, sorry, I thought you were their line manager.

OK, then it's their boss's responsibility and NOT yours.

Sharing out the work and deciding priorities is IMO the management's job. Sounds like you've been given supervisory responsibilities without any power. Oh blimey I know what that's like.

I think I would schedule another meeting with YOUR boss and say 'Here is the work you have asked me to do, here is what I have shared out with X and here's the evidence that I have shared it out with Y, here is the evidence that I have asked them to do it, I do not have the power to make them do it, they have told me about competing priorities nand I do not feel that I can set work priorities for them' [i.e. that's YOUR job, Mr Boss, you idiot!']

And leave it at that. You could take the (edited) diary with you but I really wouldn't use it unless you are directly asked - I'd consider it a last resort.

If it works in any sense in terms of you not having to try and get work out of them, it still leaves you in an office with a couple of people who get their jollies through bullying, and I would look HARD for another job. In the meantime, laugh uproariously whenever they say something and say 'oh X you are FUNNY' a lot (they will fight back of course but at least you'll be laughing). And at all times, deal with them separately. They gain their power from being a pair of horrors. If you go over to talk to one of them, don't acknowledge the other, focus entirely on one, sit down and get to their eye level etc. Treat them as separate beings. If they try and bring the other one in on a conversation, try to refocus it back to the other. Effectively, build a relationship with each as individuals, and do not acknowledge the Tweedledum and Tweedledee element of power in numbers.

None of this is easy. I have worked in an office with someone who was not like this, she simply ignored me totally 99% of the time. I felt queasy all the time she was in the office and literally all she did was ignore me, none of this stuff. I do sympathise. has this link been done already? It's the government Bullying at Work site - scroll down for organisations like the Andrea Adams Trust which might help you.

If they've been separated before, then the managers must have been aware of previous problems.

Again I think Choosy has come up with some good ideas