To ask about mental images, memory & emotions

[WrylyAmused]

Topic of conversation that's been coming up a lot for us lately. Would love to hear how it is for everyone else....

I'm almost, but not quite aphantasic - I don't typically "see" mental images, for example when reading a book, I don't picture the scenes etc. I can picture something if specifically asked to, but it doesn't occur to me to think that way in general.

I also think I probably have SDAM - severely deficient autobiographical memory. Virtually no memories from my past (don't remember last week, also don't remember much from childhood etc), & no emotional attachment to the small amount I do remember.
No trauma or reasons to intentionally forget, just my mind doesn't work that way.
In contrast, I have an excellent, almost photographic memory for facts, text, technical things etc.

Linked to that, I'm really resilient. I don't get affected by negative things very much, because after the immediate emotional reaction, I can't really recall them, and I can't recall how that emotional reaction felt at the time, so I'm really good at getting over things and moving on. Of course, it also seems like I don't get replayed joy out of happy things...

Partner is hyper-phantasic - sees vivid mental images of anything and everything, all the time, has vivid dreams and amazing memory of his past (but terrible memory for facts etc).

Has bad anxiety and often replays past events over and over, and has a strong emotional reaction to them (both positive and negative), even when they're years in the past.

Not really an AIBU, but curious.
How is your experience with mental images?

Do you think it's correlated with how detailed your autobiographical memory/emotional attachment to past memories is etc etc?

How does it affect your experience of both positive and negative/traumatic events?

Would you change from where you are now if you could?

Interesting point about not having emotional memories making you more resilient! I have the 30th anniversary of a painful event coming up, and thinking about it made me feel bad, as though it was directly poisoning the present.

Oh wow. I didn't know there was a word for this, but that's me!

I can argue with someone and then move on as if it's not happened. I just have the emotion and then move on. DH and I will have a row and then as soon as I've calmed down I'm fine whereas he remembers everything and can't forget it.

I can remember things from the past if someone else reminds me of the memory but I generally won't until reminded.

I read loads but never envisage the scenes either.

Strange, because I've always wondered why people say it conjures up images for them.

Another thing is I can't stay angry with people. Like, I literally can't. I forgive them, mostly because I forget I'm meant to be angry with them, or I know I should be but once the emotion has happened I move on from it.

I am also resilient and bounce back quickly from set backs.

I recently learned that other people also talk to themselves in their head. Which blew my mind. I just do things, I don't narrate it in my head. I wonder if it's linked?

I forgot to say DH never forgives and never forgets too! He is anxious and ruminated about things.

Really interesting thread! You have me pondering the fact that I have elements of both.

Absolutely agree OP and was having this exact conversation with DH this week!

He has complete aphantasia and has excellent mental health. Just very steady and balanced. Doesn't ruminate on things. Rolls with the punches. He's a very strong mathematician and works at a very high level in a professional role in a technical sector. DS also says he has no mind's eye and is likewise very chilled and generally a happy chap.

On the other hand, I am highly visual. My mental health is OK, but I am much, much more prone to anxiety and negative thought patterns. DD is also extremely visual (possibly more so than me) and is sadly having an absolutely horrendous time with anxiety (a very specific type of anxiety which has a clear link to the ability to hugely over think / catastrophise).

So yes, I agree with you, and when you think about it it makes perfect sense. It would be fascinating to know if this had been studied properly but AFAIK there hasn't been much study done on aphantasia.

I am hyper phantasic and chronically anxious

I feel like I read something about this recently, but I can’t think where: the theory that those who have highly visual memory are more susceptible to things like PTSD.

I find the subject of Aphantasia vs highly visual minds fascinating, and would love to see more research on the subject, and possible overlap with neurodiverse conditions.

What an interesting post, and I can definitely see the link between visual imagination and anxiety/ MH issues. I am very visual (I even work in the visual arts) but feel this is a double edged sword - I'm too easily able to imagine negative scenarios. Just having a picture in my head can make me anxious, and I can easily be convinced that something bad will happen or has happened, almost to the point of giving myself 'false memory syndrome'.

The other weird thing I have is to 'see' time in my head as having a visual shape, although that's hard to explain (DH doesn't get it at all). This is not good a good thing getting older, I'm visualising how much closer to the end I'm getting!

@Kangaroobrain there was a post the other day where someone was talking about the visualisation of time as a massive clock or timeline, and that when items go in the calendar, they visualise them as entries on the timeline - so they have this picture in their head of the layout of time and events. I thought that was really cool!

Oh I'd like to read that! I'll have a search. I also have a bit of synaesthesia going on which I feel is linked, but that's another kettle of fish. Don't want to derail OP's subject too much though, so perhaps I'll have to start another thread about that 😁

Found it @Kangaroobrain - I sent it to my friend whose daughter has synaesthesia

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4907768-lots-of-different-maps-in-my-head

I'm like your partner OP. I can visualise things easily, used to work in visual creative arts, read a lot and get lost in the images from it. I also remember and feel the emotions from things that happened 40 years ago as if they were yesterday. I really hate that aspect of it. I get easily anxious and depressed and am not very resilient.

I don't know if it's a bit chicken and egg though. I had quite a lonely childhood so was very lost in books. I was bullied a bit and my resilience went down with each incident and seemed to cut harder. The harder things cut I think the more impressed they are on your memory.

Fab, thank you! So great to know there's more of us 😁

Hmm... I've wondered this.

I have severe ADHD and don't really picture anything. I sometimes thought that my brain moves so fast it was impossible to catch something to picture but since being medicated, the things I can picture are like watercoloured snapshots, it's a still of something but literally fades away in seconds.

Having said that, I can retain technical information, maths, critical things when needed... only I don't get to decide when it's needed. Did I give the right amount of Calpol? Yes because I stopped and stared and made myself triple check. Did I lock the door when I left? Could not tell you. Can I describe my husband? Yes. Can I picture him and hold the image? Nope. Conversely, I also have very vivid dreams and I can remember them. Memory is weird.

I’m more like your partner - very strong visual (and olfactory, and auditory) memories, can remember anything that’s happened to me involving other people from the time I was about 2 years old, can recall exactly how conversations went, etc. This has made me pretty canny when it comes to dealing with other people - I have a rich mental library of all the ways relationships can go well or badly and can recognise patterns from this.

My DH has a smattering of very strong visual memories with emotional attachments (generally not good ones) - but these are static images, rather than movies with soundtracks. He remembers next to nothing from childhood.

While he can mostly remember the gist of events and conversations, he never remembers anything - AT ALL - that was said in difficult conversations or arguments. It’s like any interaction with an emotional charge gets wiped from his memory. So it’s easy for him to ‘move on’ because it’s like it literally never happened. This is often confusing and disorientating for people who deal with him regularly.

Because he doesn’t remember conflict, he blunders again and again into interpersonal situations that (to me) have red flags all over them, and then is surprised and confused when things go wrong. But then he immediately forgets. So the next inevitable conflict comes as a total surprise, etc etc ad infinitum. He’s got a mind like a steel trap for numbers, dates, shapes, processes.

Wow , what an interesting thread.
My mind is blown!

*While he can mostly remember the gist of events and conversations, he never remembers anything - AT ALL - that was said in difficult conversations or arguments. It’s like any interaction with an emotional charge gets wiped from his memory. So it’s easy for him to ‘move on’ because it’s like it literally never happened. This is often confusing and disorientating for people who deal with him regularly.

*this is me. I also really really feel emotions strongly in an argument etc, but forget it all straight after.

Sometimes though I will see a person who has really pissed me off and feel a strong emotion of dislike towards them but cannot for the life of me remember why, until DH or someone tells me why!

@Plankingplanks it’s so interesting how for some people this is experienced as a bedrock of resilience, but for others it can adversely affect their relationships.

I nearly divorced DH when he asked me if I could take minutes of our arguments because he just forgot them. 🤯 But it was the only thing that has helped. The same issues kept coming up again and again in our marriage, even though we had productive conversations and could agree on a way forward, because these conversations would just vanish from his consciousness. He never remembered what had hurt my feelings or why, he was always shocked and surprised when the same old things upset me again, like it was totally new to him. It felt to me like I didn’t matter or didn’t even register in his mind. Meanwhile he felt like I was always finding fault with him completely out of the blue and having a disproportionate reaction to things. For him it was always the first he knew about something pissing me off, whereas for me it was infuriating that he simply couldn’t remember the previous thousand times.

This has been a big problem for him at work as well, where he forgets what he’s meant to do after a meeting where feelings ran high. And in his friendships - people will take advantage of him horribly and because he can’t remember it, he just lets them do it again and again.

I guess it makes him resilient, but it also means he has to be!

Hasn’t spared him horrendous anxiety though, but that’s mainly ruminating on future global catastrophe rather than events in the past.

Thanks everyone, really interesting to hear others' points of view!

@Plankingplanks Agree, I can't stay angry either, exact same reason! And also remember the... memory of the emotion, I guess... I know there's a reason I'm not keen on them, but not the details of why.

@Bunnyhair We have this, although it's the other way round! I don't remember the details of the argument, but know that it's come up over and over again. He has ADHD & gets upset that I've forgotten the previous discussion, but (in my mind at least!) creates the issue by forgetting to do whatever the action was.

@TeaandHobnobs & @pastaandpesto Agree. I'm studying psychotherapy currently and need to choose a dissertation topic. I'm wondering about something in this kind of area, relation to trauma processing and ND etc.

@Kangaroobrain & @TeaandHobnobs Within NLP there's a concept called Timeline. You might be interested to look into that, sounds similar to what you're describing. And can be useful in processing past issues. Going to check out the synaesthesia link, thanks.

@HowToSaveAWife Oh, interesting from a different perspective. Partner has ADHD, so perhaps the memory issues are not so linked to that. Would definitely love to see more research in the area - memory is very weird!

@WrylyAmused re: your partner -

In that case then the memories trigger their rejection sensitivity dysphoria and strong need for justice. I had/have the same. I would go into awful mental spirals. Therapy helped.

@HowToSaveAWife Oh god yes, that sounds very familiar. Glad you found therapy useful!

Any particular type you found more effective than others?

He's variously tried CBT & "standard" talk therapy, and had previously wondered about DBT when a previous partner thought he might have borderline, which was probably more accurately the RSD you mention. Probably hasn't stuck at any of them long enough, but he is trying....