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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

History is a joke

298 replies

ScatterKitty · 08/10/2023 08:05

AIBU to wish History lessons focused less on Henry VIII (or British monarchy in general) and more on the history which led to current conflicts and issues which affect current affairs?

Was anyone taught about the Israel/Palestine situation? Or the history of India or Pakistan? Or even Windrush and UK Black history?

How am I meant to explain to my kids what's going on in the world when we were never taught and all they learn about is British monarchy, Romans etc?

I've been trying to find a decent explanation online with no luck. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
Finteq · 08/10/2023 09:10

Was anyone taught about the Israel/Palestine situation? Or the history of India or Pakistan?

What do you think would be taught about this?

Would the role of the British be brought up? Would it be accurate? Would it be flattering?

How can they actually teach anything about these topics that arent already biased from a western prospective. Whatever they they teach the kids here isnt what the kids in those countries are being taught about it. Who is right or are those kids misinformed? And dont be naive enough to think

' Oh well we are non-biased so our take on it will be accurate'.

LunaNorth · 08/10/2023 09:11

OP, there’s a great podcast called The Rest is History which covers all sorts of subjects in great depth.

I’m a huge fan and have learned loads from it.

AtmosAtmos · 08/10/2023 09:12

GCSE history I did the Arab/Israeli conflict. Our teacher also taught us up to the present. (Apparently wasn’t supposed to as that was not “history”)

Also did history of the America West which put into context a lot of the suffering inflicted when the British made and broke treaties.

We did the Romans and kings/queens at primary. It’s good to know local stuff as well.

Parents are always going to have to explain current affairs if they want children to understand. Even if the history of Israel is covered they may not have covered it yet.

Justifiedcheese · 08/10/2023 09:12

7Worfs · 08/10/2023 08:20

Anything that happened in the last 100 years does not qualify as “history” just yet.

It’s geopolitics you are referring to.

What?! That's a daft statement. It's recent history but it's definitely history.

ActDottie · 08/10/2023 09:13

You can research it yourself and teach your kids if that’s what you want them to know about… it’s not all on schools.

crumpet · 08/10/2023 09:13

Themes are relevant, whatever the period. Viking conquest and peoples resistance has a very modern resonance. The artificial division of countries after WWI hasn’t proven to last etc.

Daftasabroom · 08/10/2023 09:13

I did Schools Council History (for dunces). We studied: the history of medicine, Ireland and Northern Ireland, a local canal, the colonisation of America and the American West, Billy the Kid, and load more. I loved it, and am fascinated by history and geo politics today.

Justifiedcheese · 08/10/2023 09:14

AtmosAtmos · 08/10/2023 09:12

GCSE history I did the Arab/Israeli conflict. Our teacher also taught us up to the present. (Apparently wasn’t supposed to as that was not “history”)

Also did history of the America West which put into context a lot of the suffering inflicted when the British made and broke treaties.

We did the Romans and kings/queens at primary. It’s good to know local stuff as well.

Parents are always going to have to explain current affairs if they want children to understand. Even if the history of Israel is covered they may not have covered it yet.

Most of those broken treaties (from context I assume you mean with the indigneous population in the Western states) were made by the American state fyi

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/10/2023 09:14

Cornishmumofone · 08/10/2023 08:16

It can depend on the exam boards, the topics they offer and the texts available to the teacher. When I did GCSE History in the early 1990s, we did the history of Ireland, the history of medicine, the history of education and another topic which clearly wasn't memorable.

Bet you did Agriculture - crop rotation, the horse drawn seed drill...

Can't remember what exams board it was though - can you?

crumpet · 08/10/2023 09:15

Henry VIII and the impact of religious differences in the Tudor period again resonates with modern day lack of religious tolerance….

Thejackrussellsrule · 08/10/2023 09:15

I went to school in the 70s/80s, I remember my Dad asking why I didn't know about WW2 - no one told me about it at school or home, how was I meant to know?!

RomaniIteDomum · 08/10/2023 09:15

Was anyone taught about the Israel/Palestine situation? Or the history of India or Pakistan? Or even Windrush and UK Black history?

Like a PP I would expect this to fall under modern studies.

Palestine/Isreal is ongoing. Hopefully it will one day be history but it's not there yet.

Mrsjayy · 08/10/2023 09:16

BeyondMyWits · 08/10/2023 08:13

I did Modern Studies Highers in Scotland, we learned about the middle East crisis and causes.

Not really History.

Yes I also did Modern Studies not to higher level but Ograde <ancient> and we were taught about conflicts.i don't know if there Is a rest of UK equivalent?

GreyhpundGirl · 08/10/2023 09:16

Hello, secondary school history teacher of 23 years here. We get 2 lessons per week at KS3, it's optional at GCSE. History is an enormous subject with and we cannot cover everything. We spend maybe 2 lessons in year 8 on Henry VIII. We cover the monarchy over KS3 to show themes of power and religion (e.g Charles I vs parliament) but teach a hell.of a lot more than that- I'm more than happy to share my SoW with you. I have colleagues all over the country- we cover Black British history throughout the curriculum e.g 'Bangle Lady, Black Tudors based on Miranda Kaufman's scholarship, the contribution of Empire soldiers etc- this isn't uncommon. My school.does the Arab- Israeli conflict at A Level, and I believe it is still an option at GCSE.

We teach the skills and a broad framework for people to be able to learn about other histories themselves

Ylvamoon · 08/10/2023 09:16

History teaching in the uk is a lot of white washing of the involvement of Britain as a colonisers and victory over other countries in WW2.

It's hard to teach DC an alternative view without compromising their grades - done GCSE & A level History in recent years!

The best way to feed inquisitive minds is to teach them to do the reaserch varify sources, be critical of the author and don't rely solemly on the Internet for information!

And most importantly, learn another language!! It's an eye opener when it comes to current affairs!

RampantIvy · 08/10/2023 09:16

Thejackrussellsrule · 08/10/2023 09:15

I went to school in the 70s/80s, I remember my Dad asking why I didn't know about WW2 - no one told me about it at school or home, how was I meant to know?!

I did history O level in 1975. We definitely learned about the lead up to the second world war. We covered from the Industrial Revolution to WW2.

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheVaricoseVeins · 08/10/2023 09:18

Things have changed. I took O level History in the mid-80s, and we covered what was then referred to as the Arab-Israeli conflict, and Northern Ireland. There has since been a rowing back in the national curriculum, especially under the oversight Conservative ministers, who seem to have huge nostalgia for their schooldays learning about the Tudors and WW1, and themes seem to have narrowed down significantly.

However, I do wonder about adults who don’t understand anything about the history and events in the Middle East. These have been news and current affairs for decades, and it’s been impossible not to pick up on if you take even a passing interest about what’s going on in the world, and have even a minor curiosity about where it all started.

I’m a type of historian now, and I find it frustrating that so many people don’t understand that everything about where and how we live is a product of history. To understand where we are, we have to understand how we got here, and the world makes much more sense if you have even a very superficial but broad knowledge of major events in world history.

Daftasabroom · 08/10/2023 09:19

RomaniIteDomum · 08/10/2023 09:15

Was anyone taught about the Israel/Palestine situation? Or the history of India or Pakistan? Or even Windrush and UK Black history?

Like a PP I would expect this to fall under modern studies.

Palestine/Isreal is ongoing. Hopefully it will one day be history but it's not there yet.

Palestine Israeli conflict has its roots in history over 3500 years ago.

Maddy70 · 08/10/2023 09:21

The problem is lessons are designed to answer exam questions. So everything is driven down to that

Finteq · 08/10/2023 09:21

And most importantly, learn another language!! It's an eye opener when it comes to current affairs!

This

You'll learn a lot more about the role of the British as a coloniser from the people who were invaded.

RampantIvy · 08/10/2023 09:22

Very true @Maddy70. Schools are such exam factories these days.

TheMarzipanDildo · 08/10/2023 09:22

Finteq · 08/10/2023 09:10

Was anyone taught about the Israel/Palestine situation? Or the history of India or Pakistan?

What do you think would be taught about this?

Would the role of the British be brought up? Would it be accurate? Would it be flattering?

How can they actually teach anything about these topics that arent already biased from a western prospective. Whatever they they teach the kids here isnt what the kids in those countries are being taught about it. Who is right or are those kids misinformed? And dont be naive enough to think

' Oh well we are non-biased so our take on it will be accurate'.

The tendency nowadays is to be a self flagellating as possible when it comes to teaching history (have recently finished a history degree).

Bristolnewcomer · 08/10/2023 09:25

SoIinvictus · 08/10/2023 08:56

We also did a subject back in the day called "Integrated Humanities" and in that we did religious conflict worldwide, political themes etc (we studied the right, the left, dictatorships, communism, fascism etc)

So yes, OP, some of us did.

I did this subject too and it came in handier in adult life than almost anything else (outside maths/English). We learnt about things like the miners strike and what governments are supposed to be, what left and right wing means, what pressure groups are, also things like the AIDS crisis, universal suffrage. It was a real mixed bag of topics but all of it was relevant to modern life and I think about it all the time.

In history we did study “the Arab Israeli conflict” which went into some depth on how Britain helped create the situation.

Even as a teenager I got fed up with learning WWI and WWII over and over again and couldn’t help feeling it was because Britain were the winners/“in the right” on that. It was good to learn about them obviously but I gave up history when it became apparent A level was going to be more of the bloody same. I now wish I’d done a history degree and become a history teacher but cut myself off from that.

shams05 · 08/10/2023 09:26

My DD in year 3 is learning about the windrush generation who I hadn't even heard of before the fiasco a few years ago.
Was very surprised to learn that my best friends mum and grandma are classed as the windrush generation! I don't think they even labeled themselves as such until everything blew up.
In regards to India/ Pakistan we learned the Indian side of the story from our parents and the Pakistan side from a classmate in high school.
If we were to teach the British history without bias great Britain wouldn't look so GREAT anymore!

Boomboom22 · 08/10/2023 09:26

It's not really possible to teach Israel Palestine as the holocaust and the fact USA and UK 'gave back' historical land that people were already living on make it too controversial.