AIBU for thinking that devices which are marketed as upgrades of old fashioned tech are basically now just widespread forms of surveillance in many different forms?

[millymog11]

What percentage of the public do you think buy things like ring doorbells, baby monitors, car cams etc not primarily (whatever they profess / say at the time they buy it) for the purpose of the gadget (for example seeing who is at the front door) - but primarily for the purpose of surveillance both internally and outside the home?

By this I don't mean they are actively trying to catch someone out (or not at the time they buy it) but that the main purpose of what they have bought ends up not being seeing who is at the door / seeing how the baby is doing etc - but monitoring someone else or using it as evidence for something (eg to tell a home insurance firm that you have cameras on your house etc)

I am just interested in how widespread this is and how much consumers have changed in their attitude.

For example, if you ever go and knock on someone's front door (I dont mean a relative I mean a friend or you have to for some business like reason on an ad hoc basis) do you automatically assume you will be recorded on camera?

For example, if you ever go and knock on someone's front door (I dont mean a relative I mean a friend or you have to for some business like reason on an ad hoc basis) do you automatically assume you will be recorded on camera?

No, I don't even think about it.

I know someone working in the police force and it is absolutely routine now to assume that everyone has ring doorbells/cctv on their homes and asking them to give it up for burglary enquiries or even things like missing post/online deliveries is routine.

I guess my questions was about how aware people are that everyday activities are routinely recorded (not by the council/government but by private individuals) which are increasingly used for other purposes.

I realise this thread sounds mighty paranoid!! its not, I am not worried about this as such it just dawned on me that walking down the street, any street at all you are likely to be regularly captured on camera etc without you knowing.

Yes, but so what? Why does it matter if a ring doorbell records me for the four seconds it takes to walk past?

I think it's comforting. I feel much safer walking along streets in the dark thinking any assault works be filmed from all angles and hopefully put any potential assailant off.
Probably not how it works but makes me feel more confident.

OP "I guess my questions was about how aware people are that everyday activities are routinely recorded (not by the council/government but by private individuals) which are increasingly used for other purposes."

yes, I'm aware I'm on camera every time I walk past anything really.

but what do you think the individuals are using the footage for?

What gets me is how we now need an app for everything. It’s obviously to do with data harvesting and making money for tech companies and I really miss the days when I could just plug things in and use them!!

We are very surveiled society. My assumption now is that I am on a camera soemweher or that my on line activity is being monitored and logged. Read The Age of Surevillance Capitalism by Zuboff a seminal work.

honeybeetheoneandonly · Today 15:18 that is interesting I guess it is comforting

"but what do you think the individuals are using the footage for?"

I think the footage was intended for the purpose of the device in question but is now being assumed to be available/useful for loads of other stuff I guess.

I struggle a bit with examples hence starting this thread (!) but the best way of explaining it is that what was sold as a "shield" is now often used in many different cases and for many different devices as a "sword". I am not saying the sword is automatically bad, just that the sword was never contemplated as such when the devices were originally designed.
They also mean that there is no consent (whether it is reasonable to expect consent or not) so once you are outside your front door there is permanent "evidence" of you whether you like it or not and you don't ever actively agree to it. It was always thus, but in the past the "evidence" was not permanent as it is now.

Doesn’t bother me, there are so many cctv and other cameras around now I just ignore. I am not doing anything wrong so it’s no skin of my nose, in fact as someone else has said it makes me feel safer

YANBU.- My husband won't have any of this stuff in the house, and he's not at all into conspiracy stuff, just thinks it's worryingly invasive. I maybe don't feel as strongly, but I see his point.

OP I can't tell if you know something I'd like to know or if you are only just turned adult age?

All this surveillance stuff was under discussion in my life about 15 years ago. I appreciate if you were 3, you wouldn't have been aware 😂

Yes, I know that there's proof I was outside the station at 7.48pm on 10th October 2010 or whatever

No I'm not thrilled about it

But it's such an old issue....I didn't want Oystercards either. I preferred a paper ticket. I campaigned in vain against this stuff

I don't object to people protecting their property though I do realise thevraft of issues that comes with it.

Is there a reason you're raising it? Has something happened that worries you?

OP "It was always thus, but in the past the "evidence" was not permanent as it is now."

actually it always was permanent?

I'm now very aware that I'm probably caught on Ring doorbells walking down the street - I can't shamelessly comment on other people's gardens and houses now! No slagging anything off now 😂

Nothing has happened which worries me.

What stops people setting up their own commercial business selling drone footage to the police of crime hotspots? Selling other temporary planted footage for commercial gain to private investigators or the like (eg putting a permanent plant/camera anywhere and then selling the footage to someone who wants it?) There is no limit to it really.

You sell your doorbell footage to the police of the drug dealers car which passes your street every night, you sell to the national newspapers the footage from the hidden camera you arranged to be installed of the next version of Matt Handcock type story.

Of course I am not 3. But clearly even in the last 5-10 years the landscape of digital surveillance and potential monitoring has changed beyond recognition even compare with say 2014.

Call me paranoid, I genuinely have nothing to hide but the fact you have nothing to hide does not take away from the fact that everyone everywhere is on permanent record for vast parts of their day and that record is used for reasons way way beyond the purpose (and can be moetised).

"actually it always was permanent?"

No it wasn't.

OP - yes I agree

sorry, I was just puzzled because it's such an old issue and I was recently chatting with a teen friend of my goddaughter, who wondered why my generation hadn't tried to stop it (and was pissed off that mobiles were necessary in her school etc). So I wondered your age, because a lot of us did campaign against all this years ago.

I feel most people buy these with good intentions to tell delivery drivers where to leave parcels, or see if its a cold caller. Then it slowly devolves as it notifies you when someone or something passes, not just rings. Suddenly you know the neighbour puts her bins out in fake bear claw slippers, and your cat likes to roll in the path. The postman is now 'late' if you've not seen him by his usual 10, and you're speculating if they're on holiday, been promoted, fired etc if it's a different one.

Oh and posting screen caps on fb saying 'beware!!! There's a man in a black jacket lurking on paradise Street!!!!', when he happened to pause near your front gate to pick up something dropped/tie his shoe/check his phone'

I'm not actually bothered by cctv or cameras. But I have a little niggle where and what all the 'private' cctv goes. Tescos filming me their aisles can't and won't post me flashing my underwear while tying my laces for instance. Its only the security guard giggling, if its even watched at all. But Nancy from across the road (legally or not) will definitely see if her ring camera detects me landing on my arse on the ice, and may merrily post it on tiktok/fb/you've been framed, for the world to see.

Why not? You have CCTV outside your home, you keep the footage forever if you want?

I'm very aware of it, but it doesn't bother me. What I am bothered about is that it could easily be used to address antisocial behaviour, like light jumping at traffic lights, or speeding, or graffiti, or shop lifting but isn't

I think private CCTV out front/ring doorbells can be extremely useful, but don't really see the point of having every appliance and gadget in your home connected to the wifi. The more hi tech a fridge, dishwasher, washing machine etc are the more there is to go wrong.

"You have CCTV outside your home"

10 years ago the CCTV footage outside your home was owned by and the footage was used by the government and/or the police.

Now the CCTV or equivalent footage is owned by and used for whatever purpose the owner desires of basically every and any home/landowner. Hell you don't even have to own land. Car cam anyone? I saw X driving the same route on my commute and I have footage. It could be worth a lot of money and has nothing to do with the purpose the device was created for (driving safety etc)

OP "Now the CCTV or equivalent footage is owned by and used for whatever purpose the owner desires of basically every and any home/landowner"

I thought that was the case ten years ago but also that providers like Amazon could use the footage now.

The sphere of privacy has certainly shrunk. I never thought about it, but I suppose my occasional early morning run is on camera, then.

By this I don't mean they are actively trying to catch someone out (or not at the time they buy it) but that the main purpose of what they have bought ends up not being seeing who is at the door / seeing how the baby is doing etc - but monitoring someone else or using it as evidence for something (eg to tell a home insurance firm that you have cameras on your house etc)

It sounds like you’re trying to draw a distinction between having a Ring camera to see who’s at your front door, and having a Ring camera as constant surveillance outside the house.

I don’t think there’s a distinction. I think the main purpose of a Ring camera is to provide surveillance outside your house and seeing who’s at your front door comes within that, iyswim.