To take a university staff member to task?

[Sheeny98]

Has anyone found university as a mature student particularly challenging due to the way you've been treated by lecturers/ or course convenors?

Has anyone here had any altercations with staff at university? Coming on here as I'm livid and it can't just be me... surely. If you have, could you share your experiences and outcomes?

Rudeness is never acceptable but there's nothing wrong with using the questions in quotation marks on the reply in it's self. Written answers can seem more brash and many lecturers don't have English as their first language.

Another thought is that the class had been told all that information you just hadn't been their. Do they know you don't attend at all? Was that agreed as a reasonable adjustment or did you decide that yourself - unless it's set up as a distance learning programme it may be you aren't getting the same education as if you attended, most courses require you to collaborate with others for instance. Across 2 universities I've never known them allow permanent non attendance, instead they move lectures to accessible spaces, arrange adaptations etc on a reduced timetable

I'm also a mature student. What has struck me is how much the students (in general) expect to be spoonfed, and how much the lecturers are clearly expected to indulge them - I assume if 75% of the students fail because they couldn't find a tree in a forest, the lecturer gets blamed? - and yet still they manage to miss basic information and ask stupid questions over and over again. They act like GSCE students so even I struggle to see them as my peers - why the hell would a professional academic?

Some of the stories in this thread just show the problem. Moaning that a researcher doesn't clear their desk and desktop for an appointment with a student? Moaning that you didn't get an extension because you didn't have a babysitter for a few days? Jesus. I'd struggle to reply politely.

There are strict regs around extensions. We have a short list of scenarios we can grant them for - pretty much just illness and things like bereavements.

There isn't a category of "we know this student isn't taking the piss, they just need an extra few days this one time", although at times we'd like it. There also isn't one for "this student gets food poisoning at every major deadline, pisstaker, reject". It's black and white and when we're dealing with that many requests that's the way it needs to be.

OP I raised a similar point above.

It's unlikely you've been signed off to attend fully remotely. Unless you have that in writing I'd be careful about rocking the boat and drawing attention to your continued absence.

I would report that person through the university complaint procedure and/or speak to your student union.

If you have made the institution aware of your health issues and that you might require additional help on occasion then there is no excuse for the reply that you got.

You asked a simple question (and this was the first time you had difficulties so it is not like you make a habit of not understanding what is being asked of you...). They replied to you in an inappropriate manner.

I am also surprised by some of the replies on this thread. The fact that you are a student does not mean that staff has all the power and can just decide to sneer and ridicule students who might be struggling.

I was a mature student myself and I have seen that type of behaviour in some tutors and staff unfortunately.

What they fail to grasp is that an 18 year old might be intimidated but a grown adult with professional experience will just see staff/lecturers as peers and call out poor behaviour...

If you think the email they sent you is unprofessional then don't hesitate to take action.

Going against the grain, if you are in your 4th year. I'd just get on with what I need to do to pass the course. You are not going to get anywhere by complaining. Yes this may not be right but how much energy to do want to expend on this rather than the course. Kill her with kindness and move her to the bin in your brain for people who you have to rub along with to get through .

I'd thank her for her reply so late on the evening

⬆️ this is so true. Also there has been a substantial increase in extension requests.

@ColleenDonaghy I get that but it made it clear to me why the mature students I remembered from my original undergraduate degree (at the same uni) all seemed to be retired. The university makes much of its “widening access” programmes but I would recommend those of working age stick to distance learning or part time. I had been made redundant, wanted to retrain and didn’t want to spend more than a year doing it. The course would have been fine for those without children or the guy whose partner was at home.

*working age with younger children

I think it's just an age and stage of life when study is difficult, especially full-time study. Full-time study is equivalent to a full-time job but with no salary to pay for childcare. That won't work for most families and universities can't offer free childcare.

I'm not sure what you expected the university to do here?
Most of the students on my course are mature so I understand the issues faced by this group of students more than most but there's no way I could grant an extension due to childcare issues.

I get we need to juggle, I have a friend who has a first from 20-odd years ago who recently retrained in something that involved a masters then getting on to a highly competitive PhD course. The masters experience was brutal and she had to switch to doing it part time over two years, a decision which she was very upset to have to make but obviously she had to be realistic about whether she could commit to the requirements of the course. One major upside for her, however, was during covid the PhD students were offered several extensions but she was so used to fire fighting by then that she pushed through without taking any and was finished before many of her peers.

In my case I wanted the university to recognise I had pressures outside norm for the primary 21-25 year old cohort and grant me a one off 48 hour extension due to an unavoidable issue. As it was I managed to scrape together what I could to get a basic pass which I then offset with a very good exam result as generally I was well positioned to commit to the course which is why I applied.

*friend had three primary-aged children at the time

The course I teach on we have about 50% mature students with kids. If we gave people extensions because of a childcare issue then half the cohort could use that as an excuse which may not be true. Which isn’t fair on the others.

You need evidence of sickness or bereavement for extensions so how would you get evidence of a childcare issue?

the expectation for students with stuff which may impact on their studies is don’t leave it to the last minute so if something such as an unexpected childcare issue crops up it doesn’t cause a problem.

I did my second degree as a mature student with pre school age kids and would often work to the small hours once they were in bed. Alongside 40 hours a week hospital placements

Having small children will interfere with work or study, that's just how it is. It's shit, but you can't press pause on children.

DH was away at a conference the same week as our August exam board this year. I'm secretary to the board so usually I would be working late, working weekends etc but I was restricted in my hours because our children are still young and I had to do drop off and pick up, all of dinner and bedtime, and had no weekend childcare. Housework standards dropped, the kids got a bit of extra TV while I did a bit of work and I got a hell of a lot less sleep. At no point did I think the exam board and mark deadline should be moved for my childcare issues.

It's just life. If you only ran into this problem with one deadline in a year you're doing better than most working or studying parents in truth.

In my case I wanted the university to recognise I had pressures outside norm for the primary 21-25 year old cohort and grant me a one off 48 hour extension due to an unavoidable issue. As it was I managed to scrape together what I could to get a basic pass which I then offset with a very good exam result as generally I was well positioned to commit to the course which is why I applied.

But universities have to have fair and consistent rules and regulations. We can recognise the diversity of our cohorts in how we teach, schedule classes and in the support we offer but when it comes to assessment we have to be consistent and can't grant extensions for reasons that sit outside of the prescribed regulations.

Because they AREN'T students.

I can do lots of things at work that students can't.

Also, those 21-25 year olds have pressures too, many of them are struggling to make ends meet and have part time jobs with unpredictable hours. I'd be very sympathetic to someone whose exam clashed with a shift they couldn't miss but ultimately they're expected to be available Monday-Friday 9-5 and the exam weeks are published well in advance so they wouldn't have a hope of getting a deferral approved.

Absolutely. A member of staff getting lots of evening emails you could argue it puts them under pressure to reply. I accept we don’t have to look at emails after working hours but in practice we do, potentially for stuff from colleagues.

a student getting an evening email is normally for their benefit rather than it being something they’re expected to deal with.

Just to go against the grain for some of the negative comments above.

I recently finished a full time masters as a mature student. I chose to go to my local uni and turned down offers from other universities (RG/with better reputations) who, during the application stage were difficult to get an answers/a response from.

I have nothing but immense gratitude to all of the lecturers on my course. They were all brilliant and went over and above to help us (even when other students weren’t doing as much to help themselves as perhaps they might). Post MA I’ve been in touch with one or two of them regarding next steps/PhDs (not at the same uni) and they have been nothing but kind, encouraging and generous with their time.

So I just wanted to say a small thank you to some of the academics posting on this thread, I’m sure that the majority of your students do see how you go over and above and really appreciate it.

Very much my experience too CocoonofDavid. It's so obvious how much time and energy my lecturers put in and they have the patients of saints.

Official complaint territory for sure. Partner works at a uni and it would be major bollocking territory to speak to a student like that when they're asking for help.

I'd let the times thing go though.