My prediction

[S910441]

Male child comes into school and announces that they now identify as a girl/cat/clown/cheese grater, etc. Peers and teachers too scared of repercussions to question this behaviour, so individually and collectively affirm child's new identity. Parents do likewise.

This continues for some time.

Eventually it transpires that this change of identity was precipitated by psychosis, was a symptom of a serious mental disorder, and that, owing to uniformly unquestioning affirmation, the window for early intervention has been missed. ("Getting help quickly is really important if you're experiencing psychosis," according to the NHS.) Treatment is therefore far more lengthy, difficult and traumatic (and expensive for the NHS) and many disruptive years of psychiatry and periods as an in-patient in psychiatric wards follow.

AIBU?

I'm not sure its true psychosis
And ime, I have mainly seen females identifying as male I know of several I do.think its worrying though what is going on it seems more cultish to me?

Mmmm I don't think this is likely.

Boys being gender non conforming is not an indicator of psychosis just mostly a normal part of growing up for some boys.

I don't agree with social or parental transitioning but nor do I agree with assuming that children who explore gender are psychotic.

I think it's pretty offensive to equate gender dysphoria and psychosis to be honest

Personally I think there are many teens who are confused about or questioning their identity and this can be a normal part of growing up.being conditioned into thinking they are actually an a different sex which is very worrying.

But that's not what I'm saying.

I am NOT saying that being gender non-conforming = psychosis.

I am saying that one symptom of psychosis is losing one's sense of identity, and that in the current climate there is a danger (albeit small) of conflation when a change of identity is affirmed/accepted rather than explored.

Also you can't have it both ways. If there should be no stigma attached to having a mental illness, any more than a physical one, then it should not be considered insulting to suggest that gender dysphoria could be a symptom of mental illness.

Again, I'm NOT saying it is - I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know - but it shouldn't be seen as a slur.

I think I'm just a bit confused about what you are saying.

Are you saying that you think that all kids who identify as trans have mental disorders? I think psychotic can have negative connotations.

I don't think they do. I think there is a good deal of social contagion and grooming going on and this accounts for a large proportion of children who identify as trans.

I don't think that there are swathes of more children who are dysphoric. Why would there be.

No, I'm not saying I think every teenager who identifies as trans has a mental disorder.

I agree with you about social contagion, and it's very concerning.

I'm saying that some mental disorders could be missed in the current climate of accepting self-identification without question, as there is crossover in how they present.

Sorry, I don't know how to express this any more clearly.

Maybe an analogy will help (totally imaginary):

Lots of teenagers start skipping meals because they have the right not to be made or encouraged to eat. It becomes hugely popular amongst teens to do this but no-one questions it because society agrees it is their right and it is highly frowned on to question this right.

However because of this "trend" nobody notices that a small number of teenagers are developing anorexia, and they become seriously ill before any action is taken. Consequently it is much harder to treat their illness.

I think it's your scenario in your opening post that's caused the confusion.

I think if you opened another thread where you have a more balanced opening post you might get more responses and a better discussion about the valid points that you raise.

I agree that mental disorders could be missed. I know for a fact that autistic children were signposted to GIDS and I think the motive for that was to reduce CAMHS waiting times but I think that your OP is really provocative in its language.

I think what you are saying is that socially transitioning is precipitating pre-existing mental health conditions or even potentially causing them, I'd agree with that. I think where you lost me in your first post was the implication this was down to the mental health issue in the child, I don't think that's the case most of the time, I do think that transitioning children can cause mental health problems though.

I think what you are saying is that socially transitioning is precipitating pre-existing mental health conditions or even potentially causing them, I'd agree with that. I think where you lost me in your first post was the implication this was down to the mental health issue in the child, I don't think that's the case most of the time, I do think that transitioning children can cause mental health problems though.

No, that's not what I was saying, and I wasn't intending to be provocative (other than provoking a discussion).

I didn't think it was that confusing and I've tried twice to clarify, but I'm obviously not succeeding, so I'm giving up.

This isn't what psychosis is and it's totally minimising the severity of psychotic illnesses. Psychosis is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a psychological or personality problem. It's not a type of mass hysteria or following a new trend. People with psychosis are seriously ill and often require ongoing medication therapy, the side effects of which can make them quite unwell.

Children/young people believing they're cats, teapots, lawns etc. are just jumping on a bandwagon which is a sign of their socialisation going wrong and the adults who encourage them are being highly negligent.

I will try one more time.

Distortion of a person's sense of identity can be one way in which psychosis presents. Yes, psychosis is a psychiatric illness, not following a trend. I fully understand that.

Most people believing they are cats etc are not psychotic.

But some could be - some could believe they are cats as a result of psychosis - and this could be missed amongst all the non-psychotic people believing they are cats, if we just accept believing oneself to be a cat to be an unremarkable state.

Then the few people who are psychotic (and consequently believe themselves to be cats) may not get the medication and therapy that they badly need because it could be assumed that they are simply jumping on the bandwagon.

The whole reason for posting was because I recognise the seriousness of psychotic illness and the importance of early intervention (see OP).

If they were psychotic they would have other symptoms, such as hallucinations, self neglect, being withdrawn etc. Holding a false belief isn't the only symptom of psychosis.

From what I understand, psychosis is rare in children and very uncommon in teenagers. It tends to emerge early 20s.

I agree. I also believe many cases of abuse will be found to have been missed because of this acceptance nonsense rather than trying to find the route cause of child wanting to run away from their own body.

I've cared for people with psychosis and they present with very particular signs and symptoms. They have quite clearly disordered thinking of a type that's not easily mistaken for another problem. A psychiatrist or experienced mental health worker will know the signs.

Did NONE of you grow up like this? None at all?
I was a boy in everything but underneath my shorts.
getting breasts was the most traumatic thing in my childhood. I fried to punch th back in, I started praying to god to take them away, I hated them.
mom 50 now and wish I could have fitted in better in life. I’ve accepted my body but it would not be my body if I had had a choice.

why can’t children just know for themselves what they want and feel. You can’t just assume it will pass. If it just passed because of society’s expectations it doesn’t really pass.

That's interesting. Some of those other symptoms could be hidden too, though. Being withdrawn isn't that uncommon amongst teenagers. Self neglect, depending on how it manifests, may not be obvious, or at least not immediately (not eating, for example, or self-harm).

If onset of psychosis is more likely in older adults, perhaps my point is more relevant to university students.

I do remember a friend at school who first displayed signs of schizophrenia at around 16.

People with psychosis aren't able to hide things. They can't mask. Psychosis involves a breakdown of personality and a loss of touch with reality. They may become secretive because they're aware that something is wrong, but the sophisticated concealing that someone with an eating disorder might have, they tend not to be able to do because they're so unwell.

I'm sure you're correct about presentation, but they have to get to a psychiatrist or mental health worker in the first place. The medical professionals may easily recognise the signs, but a teacher or parent may not, especially if they're steeped in this culture of acceptance and affirmation, so the young person could slip under the radar.

I should probably have said "go unnoticed" rather than actively hidden. But perhaps it wouldn't in this case.

Well yeah. I'm in my 50s and autistic. I've never fitted the stereotypically female image and I hated my body, but I just got on with it. Accepted my lot and got a grip which people don't seem to be able to do anymore. They want everything fixed and we all have things about ourselves that aren't fixable. My faith and a good dose of stoic philosophy have helped me through.

In my experience, psychosis just isn't something that can be missed or hidden unless the person is a recluse or homeless or something.

why can’t children just know for themselves what they want and feel.

Without meaning to be facetious, children want to stay up all night, to eat sweets instead of meals, to play computer games instead of doing their homework, to experiment with drugs, to have underage sex, etc., etc.

You can't assume children will always make the best choices for themselves.