To struggle with anti vax DM views

[Silvatree]

A close relative recently died and my DM who is very much anti vax, believes the vaccines she had led to a heart attack.

I usually avoid getting into discussion with DM on this but found it quite upsetting she is blaming the Covid vaccine for this persons death, almost as though they are to blame.

She only become anti vax due to covid and reading US anti vax news etc. She follows truth social, the Trump social media site.

I'm also worried if she talks like this to other relatives they will be really angry and upset, I try to let it wash over me but it's difficult when she openly says we are idiots for getting vaccinated etc.

Has anyone been able to talk to an anti vax er who is so strong in their views? One of my dc is disabled so we as carers and they all still get vaccinated. I'm ok with her not being, but I don't need the constant comments and this latest episode has been a step to far.

YANBU.
A relative is similar. Since covid anyone who has died, had a stroke, had a brain haemorrhage, had cancer, had pretty much any illness, it’s down to the vaccine (I swear she thinks no one died or got ill before the vaccines!). And the whole of the world’s vaccinated population is going to die soon 🙄
She also think Trump was an amazing president who will hopefully be voted in again, Putin is in the right, and Bill Gates is the antichrist (and obviously responsible for the deaths of the vaccinated).

You cannot talk to these people reasonably. There’s no middle ground.
It’s better to handle the situation by diverting conversation onto something else.

YANBU
It's so fucking insulting when anti vaxxers blame heart attacks on the vaccine without the slightest consideration what anyone is going thru.
It's not all anti vaxxers tho tbf some have more compassion than that. But there are those among them who take this smug delight in anyone's Sudden death like 'ooohh look It's coming true!!' It's so disgusting.
My dad dropped dead suddenly and unexpectedly last year and it was devastating so it really triggers me. I want to shout at them 'these are real fucking people you know!! Who've actually died and it's caused indescribable pain and all you can do is use it as some wonderful statistic to back up your idiotic nonsense!!'
But I do have some tin foil hat friends who couldn't have been more compassionate when Mt dad died and didn't bring up vaccines once (even tho I know what they think about vaccines)
So it's not all of them
But some people like your DM are just properly psychopathic about it. No one cares about your stupid conspiracy theory when they've just list a lived one.

@Galapagal are we related 🤣, it's really baffling isn't it.

I'm hopeful she is aware enough to not air her views at the funeral but we will see and that is her own issue.

The Trump love is probably even more of a turn up but what can you do!

I usually just move on from her comments but, her blaming someone we both loved for their own death, just hit me really but I guess that's life when you are an anti vaxxer!

This is my DM now. It's so sad and terrifying. She was such a lefty, love everyone type before and now she's all pro Trump. .and ironically, like many people, she got there via following 'wellness' content on the Internet. It's a short hop from yoga, and herbal medicine to antivax and Big Pharma, to total right wing conspiracy stuff.

It's causing awful damage to her marriage and her relationships with everyone. As much as we love her it's very hard.

I'm reading this book if it's useful to anyone https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1510755772/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

@14blackcrows so sorry to hear about your Dad.

As you say this is real life, sadly some people do die suddenly and that was also happening before Covid.

All this does is create a divide, why can't she just decide not to get vaccinated and keep it to herself, instead we are all sheeple!

That sounds awful for you - you are a Saint to put up with your DM. Like many others I find anti vax talk very triggering - how can people come out with such rubbish and insult and upset bereaved people in such a ridiculous and cruel way....
The trouble is this clap trap has convinced lots of people. All you can do is distance yourself from any comments your mum makes, and if necessary gently assert your disagreement with her views. There is a thin line between tolerance and collusion.

You just have to ignore it.

Easier said than done but it's the only way. My DM is an anti-vaxer too and huge conspiracy theorist, lizards run the world, populations killed on purpose...

I just change the subject.

I am sorry for your loss and I am sorry that your mother's comments are so hurtful at this time.

It is difficult to have conversations of this nature with people who hold strong views on controversial subjects. I see this a lot on here and I see it with people in my own family.

You seem like a reasonable person, especially in your willingness to accept her right to hold a different opinion. I am not sure it will be possible to move her round to the idea that sharing her opinions on the link between your relative's decision to have a COVID vaccination and their death will cause harm to their relatives and will not either change the outcome or change the retrospective decision of anyone who has chosen to have the vaccine but maybe if you approached it from that angle..

Mum, I know you believe that there is a link between the covid vaccine and Auntie Anne's heart attack, but that cannot be changed now, she is dead. It will really hurt Uncle Peter and their children if you repeat this in their earshot. I know you believe that we were wrong to have the vaccine but we did what we thought was best for our family after weighing up the information we had at the time. I also know that you did what you think was best at the time and that I respect your right to make that decision. It is very sad for everyone that Auntie Anne is dead and we may never know exactly what contributed to her death but right now, I think we need to do what is best for her family and keep our thoughts on the vaccine to ourselves.

Just remind her if she's anti vax, then she's anti science and anti medicine. So when she breaks her leg, has a heart attack, gets cancer... whatever. She can opt out of being helped by the medical profession, can't she? Because they obviously can't be trusted or know what they're doing. So she won't want them to intervene in any way.

Hope she has stopped any medication she's on. Also, hope she's chucked all her painkillers away.

I haemorrhaged for two days after getting the vaccine even though I haven’t had a period in several years. I think your mother is right.

@00100001 That is not how the assessment of medications and their side effects work. There are structures in place to monitor reported side effects of medications after their introduction, for very good reason. There are many stories of medications that were introduced in good faith but later removed due to a body of evidence that showed the risk of side effects no longer outweighed the benefit of the medication, when evidence came to light.

There have been observations of myocarditis and pericarditis after covid vaccinations reported by the CDC, mostly in males between 18 and 39, not in large numbers and for the most part, treatable, but notable nevertheless.

There have also been reported cases of post menopausal bleeding after the covid vaccination, short lived and not believed to be dangerous but deemed worthy of further investigation, editorial published in the BMJ.

Vaccines are not without effect for everyone - but on the balance of the evidence available and continually under review, they are deemed to be an appropriate response to the virus in question.

Just because we know there are side effects in small percentages and for some people does not mean that we should not use any medication.

I don't find it upsetting because I don't know anyone who holds such views (or at least haven't discussed with anyone). I think people have very short memories and all the rhetoric about "we shouldn't have had lock-downs and there was no need for vaccines" just come from a place of ignorance and wishful thinking.

At the same time, I do believe that there was a small number of adverse reactions to the vaccines that resulted in deaths. But I feel fairly confident they can't in any way be compared to the number of people who would have died without vaccination and without lock-downs.

The whole world (apart from Sweden I believe) locked down. So the whole world was wrong? If you believe that you are a possibly not thinking straight.

If your statement is true then I am sorry for you've been through

But the fact that you think the relative of a stranger on the internet died from a vaccine,without anything to support that statement or theory, says it all

Let me guess, is she also -
Pro Trump
Thinks Putin is the victim
Pro Brexit
Christian
Thinks the moon landing were faked
But hasn't made it to flat earth yet?

I feel like there are 2 separate shitty things about this type of behaviour:

1. Going off down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole and avoiding rational thought
2. Treating other people's deaths, illnesses, or griefs as merely an opportunity for voicing your views, without tact or consideration

I mean, going on about how Auntie Anne's death was caused by her own decisions would be crass and unkind even if it was true. Nobody goes to the funeral of a person who died from a drug overdose or from dangerous driving and bangs on about how it was all their own fault. It's just rude. You're there to mourn the person and support those who may be feeling even more grief than you. Not to cause them even more distress.

I not anti vacc but hemorrhaged for a year after the covid vaccine. It destroyed my life for a year. I couldn't walk 5 minutes without soaking through everywhere. When I finally got to be seen by women's health they had seen numerous women with similar issues since the vaccine. The only solution an unwanted coil.

The point is, if she doesn't trust modern medicine,then she should act accordingly. If vaccines don't work,then if she gets COVID, she obviously won't seek any help, knowing she knows better than to trust the medical community with her health. 🤷‍♀️

I do not consider people who are anti covid 19 vaccine "antivaxxers"! Actually pisses me off!!
When you say "antivaxxers" you are generalising the term and because they choose not to have one vaccine, that they dont want any vaccine.

Its pathetic. They are not 'anti vaxxers', it just simply makes them anti covid-19 vaxxer!! Please stop generalising the term.

Antivaxxers are against all vaccines available!!!!
Like them weirdo parents who think they can give their children an organic life by not inoculating their kids.

I respect everyone's right to their own opinion regarding the vaccine and tbh, I dont think either side is unreasonable to feel how they feel about it.
I have to be honest, i was fully vaccinated against covid, had all 3 jabs, and have not felt right since, i actually now have a few things happen to me that coincidentally started after my 2nd jab, and made worse by a 3rd and even getting covid made it worse. After that i said no more. But thats just my personal experience and not speaking for everyone.

But for the love of God, if someone wants to refuse the vaccine for covid, stop generalising them as an antivaxxer FFS!!

And there is evidence out there that suggests that the vaccines are responsible for certain ailments, its in the science. JS

Do i regret having my vaccines for covid? Yes!

I think her mother is right as well, and more and more people are questioning what they injected.

I didn’t inject anything, and I’m glad I didn’t.

YANBU. Unfortunately you can’t fight stupidity. She’s clearly ignorant and using ridiculous sources for her information.

Which peer reviewed scientific journal did your single side effect feature in? Honestly.

It has been admitted that the vaccine has caused some worrying results including heart problems, and blood clots, however the vaccine has saved many more people than it has caused ill effects to, this is not a conspiracy theory and everyone including your mum is entitled to their opinion.

@SunshineDaisiesButterMellowxx , in this case my Mum has developed a dislike of all vaccines. She did have the first covid vaccine but has since said she would not have flu or Covid now. I don't think there are any others she would encounter at her age.

I totally understand that all vaccines have risks and empathise with those who have had side effects.

I'm not a Covid vaccine cheerleader, I just read about the pro and cons and felt it was worth doing in our situation but I know some people who decided not to, and do it in a quiet respectful way, without putting others down. This is the behaviour I struggle with, especially when I want to support my DM in a time of family grief.

That's not what's happening though is it.
She's shoving her unrelated opinion down people's necks at the very least in poor taste