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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is my boss unreasonable?

16 replies

lazydaisymum88 · 28/09/2023 19:26

I work in a cafe with a zero hour contract (in fact no contract, I've never signed one) I've done every single Sunday for 18 months. I have 2 young children so I asked if I could start having the odd one off.. even once a month.
He said no as Sunday is one of "my days" and I could book the odd one as holiday if there was availability.. there's no Sundays free to book until January.
It's zero hour so surely he can't make me work every Sunday?
I'm otherwise happy with the job but I'm thinking I'll have to leave if this is the case.

OP posts:
Motomum23 · 28/09/2023 19:28

If its zero hour AND you are prepared to be offered no hours in relatiation then yes you can just refuse the shift.

Gloriousgardener11 · 28/09/2023 19:29

Yes, he’s totally unreasonable he wants his cake and eat it ! ( no pun intended )
I would be looking for another job if I were you, put your family first, no this twit.

Morechocmorechoc · 28/09/2023 19:30

I'd just say I've been doing it for year and I need one off each month to see my kids. Let me know if this works, if not I'm sorry I'll have to move on.

ItsNotRocketSalad · 28/09/2023 19:31

You can refuse to work Sundays and he can refuse to give you any hours. He sounds like the type to do that. So you need to decide how much you need the job.

Notimeforaname · 28/09/2023 19:34

Just start lookin for jobs now. Start applying, see what comes up and leave as soon as you have something lined up.

Mumof2teens79 · 28/09/2023 19:35

I'd be worried that you don't have any contract
Do you get holiday or sick pay?
How do you get paid?

Original poster
lazydaisymum88 · 28/09/2023 19:42

Never signed nor seen a contract! No holiday or sick pay - we get 12.7% each month added to our wage as "holiday pay" we get paid by clocking in and out into our bank each month.

OP posts:
harrisaar · 28/09/2023 19:59

Yes, always sign a contract though in future otherwise you’ve not really a leg to stand on

devildeepbluesea · 28/09/2023 20:03

Just because you haven’t got a paper contract doesn’t meant you don’t have one. Zero hours contract means that there’s no mutuality of obligation - which means you’re as entitled to refuse a shift as your boss is not to offer you one.

If you’ve been doing the same hours for 18mths I’d argue that via custom and practice those are your contracted hours. Regardless of that you’re still entitled to holiday pay and statutory sick pay (if applicable). I’m happy to advise you further if you want to PM me - but considering the way your boss currently operates, be prepared to get your marching orders if you stand your ground.

Ascendant15 · 28/09/2023 20:08

You aren't going to want to be told this. But in order to establish a lawful zero hours contract it must be in writing. Technically, in law, any contract must have a basic statement of the main particulars. But since you don't have the zero hours in writing, it isn't zero hours, even if your employer thinks it is.

But then by having worked 18 months of Sundays, Sundays are your working day!

In other words, you are damned either way!

Time to get another job....

Daffodilwoman · 28/09/2023 20:12

Definitely start looking for another job.
You boss sounds like he would be spiteful enough to not give you shifts if you refuse to work every Sunday.

Mumof2teens79 · 28/09/2023 21:55

As I understand it a zero hours contract technically means you are obliged to accept shifts given. A casual contract places no obligation on you.

But if you have no contract then you are neither, but Sundays are your normal working day.

If you refuse to work you aren't in breach of contract, but your boss has no obligation to keep you employed either.

Dacadactyl · 28/09/2023 22:01

You don't have a leg to stand on. Even if you had a contract, it wouldn't help in this situation because you're on zero hours.

Vieve1325 · 28/09/2023 22:22

It’s against the law to not provide a written statement of particulars (contract in some cases) on day one of their contract.

Just because something isn’t written down doesn’t mean it’s not enforceable - in employment law we have what’s called ‘implied terms / custom and practice’ which basically means even if something isn’t formally agreed, it can be enforced as a term of your employment.

Paying holiday bay based on the old 12.07% of hours worker is now unlawful. It’s now based on average hours.

Two ways to play this. Maintain you’re on a zero hour contract and tell him you will be taking the odd Sunday off. Ask for contract tho this effect. See what happens.

or

Say if they want to enforce Sunday as a static ‘working day’ for you, given you’ve worked that pattern regularly since you started you’d like an employment contract to that effect, on which you’ll be due full employee benefits, including pro rata holiday pay which - shock horror- you will use to take appropriate Sundays off at points throughout the year which they WILL have to authorise at some point

Be prepared to find another job. Which in this market shouldn’t be hard - depending on what you do.

HalfMumHalfBiccit · 28/09/2023 22:27

Hopefully there are plenty of other cafes looking for staff in your area. Places are crying out for staff where I am. Have a look you might find somewhere nice with a nicer working environment and boss.

Original poster
lazydaisymum88 · 28/09/2023 22:54

Thanks everyone. It's a bit confusing isn't it, as my understanding is that a zero hours means your not entitled to accept shifts and they're not entitled to give you any. I took this kind of work as I felt it would work better round the children being flexible.. but I'm starting to wonder if I would be better with a 2 day a week contract elsewhere and get holiday pay etc! x

OP posts:
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