Friend wondering what to do

[alcoholiseverywhere]

NC for this.

My friend had to wade through a lot of toads on OLD before finally finding a bloke that she fancies and who is jovial and good to her; she has a lot of good to say about him.

However, the downside is that she thinks he's alcoholic (or at the very least, a "problem drinker"). He can drink at least 2 litres of vodka PLUS other drinks over the weekend when they're together. Of course he claims that he never has a hangover etc. Also of course that he could "stop any time" (yeah) and that he doesn't drink during the week because of work (she doesn't see him then to know if this is true but surely that amount of vodka in a night would kill someone who's not a regular drinker?)

For context, she's retired, he's a bit younger so not yet retired. Neither of them has children. They don't live together and whilst he wants to, she doesn't. He drives (I know, I know). She likes a glass of wine or two with her dinner but is not a heavy drinker.

She often talks about this and it clearly bugs her. Naturally it worries her, but also is causing a bit of friction, eg he's not got spare cash to go on holiday because it's all been spent on booze.

She's torn between just having a good time with him, as she enjoys his company and fancies him, and it's not as though they are younger and wanting to plan a family or buy a house together. Or is this a LTB issue, but she's had enough of kissing frogs and doesn't fancy starting again! She also knows that only he can sort out his drinking, and only if he chooses to do -- it's not in her power. She asks me my opinion and as a good friend I feel it's my job to let her vent and question, but not my job to tell her what to do. My own views are also coloured by unhappy memories of my ex's alcoholism which was one of the things that killed my marriage.

So, although it's not my problem, I just wondered what the wider world's view would be on this.

YABU - he gets on top of his drinking, or else it's LBT time
YANBU - no kids, no financial ties, just live in the moment.
(there's no real logic to those categories but I had to divvy it up somehow!)

(Reiterating - I'm not going to tell her what to do. I'm just wondering how other people see this sort of situation).

I wouldn't want to be with someone who's a 'problem drinker' no matter how jovial they were. I wouldn't make ultimatums or try to change them I'd just not get involved once I knew about their drinking.

There's no "run" option.

He is a frog. She needs to drop him immediately. When someone is perfect except for one major problem, then he is not perfect.

Everything you've written sounds like my father, who died at a young age after my mother ruined her health by spending years looking after him. She and the rest of us lived in poverty because it is not possible to live with an alcoholic and not end up doing that.

Two litres of vodka in one weekend is extreme. Your friend is clearly trying to avoid calling this what it is.

You say she's retired and he is younger, so I'm guessing he'll be in his forties or fifties. It is way too optimistic for you and your friend to be talking in terms of "sorting out" his drinking. If he could do that, he would have.

Right now, he can't afford to go on holiday. I would be comfortable betting a week's pay that he only has a few years of reasonably good health left if he is used to drinking the way you describe. Soon, he won't be able to work and that'll mean he can't afford his rent/mortgage or food or anything else.

I understand very well the futility of trying to save a woman who is determined to go down with an addict, but you are doing her no favours to let her "vent" and not say anything. It probably would drive her away to be honest with her about where this is headed, but if you care about her, you will try at least once to get her to see sense.

@Antst , they are both older than you think but other than that, your post sums up the situation very well, including my feelings.

I do understand the desire to live in the moment and just enjoy the time together now (though personally I wouldn't enjoy the time spent with someone who'd just downed a litre of spirits) and I think that's what she wants to do. But she is worried that if the relationship continues, it will become harder and harder for her to disentangle herself from it.

He is going to die horribly. I’ve seen it happen with two family members.

She will become his carer first though.

Tell her to run.

@alcoholiseverywhere, her language about "living in the moment" is about being in denial.

She is clearly an articulate and intelligent woman and that won't be helping her in this situation because it means she can come up with words to make her decisions seem OK. But make no mistake. All that stuff about "living in the moment" and "having fun" is about avoiding what is going on.

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that it is not possible to be in a relationship and not get further enmeshed. His health will fail. His drinking will get worse because that's how alcoholism works. Honestly, I'm amazed to hear he is older than forties/fifties. He's on borrowed time. And she will end up having to take care of him.

I am not eloquent enough to describe how overwhelming and horrific alcohol-related health problems are and the effect they have on families. Nearly all of my father's friends were alcoholics and I've known a few others. I have always observed the same pattern:

There's a health problem. Things quickly spiral. As soon as the alcoholic has to "take a break" from work, it's all over, because the drinking increases and that, the lack of a job to go to, and health problems that lead to further problems = a major impact on anyone nearby. Your friend will feel obliged to pay his bills and nurse him.

I think she is paying lip service to acknowledging the problems. What she's really doing is avoiding having to leave him. But God help her if she doesn't leave. I feel sorry for her and hope she sees sense.

@MissingMoominMamma, you've said it so succinctly. You're exactly right. It's a fate I would not wish on my worst enemy. She should be running in the other direction.

He can drink at least 2 litres of vodka PLUS other drinks over the weekend when they're together.

Massive Toad

She should move on now the more she gets embroiled in this, the more she will develop feelings and the harder it will get. She can do anything, why spend her retirement with someone who spends their money on booze.

It won't get better, only worse.

Apparently she challenged him recently and he poured what was left in the vodka bottle down the sink, to "prove" something.

But as I told her, I have a bottle of vodka in the cupboard and feel no need to pour it away to avoid drinking it. I just don't drink it, no histrionics required! (It's there to offer if anyone wants a drink). If you really don't hear that siren call from the alcohol, you don't need to get rid of it.

@alcoholiseverywhere, yup, that's a shining example of what's going on. She likes him because he's interesting (a drama queen) and he is willing to pour expensive alcohol away because that's how invested he is in denial that he has a problem.

She needs to recognize that she is attracted to the drama and that it is not healthy. And I agree with you that the histrionics should have her running for the hills.

His liver must be mush. Frightening amount to drink.

I’ve seen first hand the damage alcohol does to people (in some cases it led directly to their death despite them being young) and I therefore couldn’t be with anyone like this.

They have a good time together and she fancies him.

I bet that’s not the case after he’s got a litre of vodka inside him. How does she feel about him then? Or when he’s snoring beside her. Or unable to have sex. Or doesn’t want to do anything that doesn’t involve alcohol?

If she breaks it down it might be quite nice to have the comfort or ‘having a partner’ but if she analysed the actual time spent enjoying his company it might not stack up. And that’s without the inevitable car crash of health issues he’s already overdue.

My last BF I met on OLD was a heavy drinker, and used it as an excuse when he behaved badly. I was far too passive about it, and stayed with him a lot longer than I should have, but in the end, that's why I finished with him. It took him 3 years to admit he had a problem. Ironically, me ending it was what spurred him to give up drinking, but believes after a period of time being sober, he will be able to drink socially and manage it, any falsehood he can to justify drinking. Needless to say I never went back.