School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

@ZippedTop exactly - English speaking schools and English speaking expat bubbles - and always the arrogant expectation that you'll be able to get by on English

Generally, yes. My hesitation would be one school I worked in, child's father would not allow the mother to go to language classes, and any attempt at her learning online would have been stamped on. Just worth being aware of situations like this.

People are indignantly questioning why the school is wasting time teaching the parents English. Well I assume a school functions much better where they can engage with the parents.

It will improve educational outcomes, make safeguarding easier and make teachers’ lives less stressful, as well as helping the kids feel more integrated. It is in everyone’s interests for parents to be engaged and know the language. Hence the school classes. However upset that makes people.

It’s a difficult one. I worked in ‘immigration’ broadly speaking and one of the first things I tell my clients once they have been granted status is to learn English. I understand that it may be harder to learn for some, but it blows my mind that some clients still expect interpreters after living here for numerous years. I tell some to use google translate and send me an email as there’s no interpreter available and I can’t understand them so can’t help. But they need to help themselves by learning English.

Wow the ignorance on this tired is palpable

Isn't it just. My school had a Google translate 'incident' last year (and it was a common European language, not a lesser used one). Let's just say it involved some rather colourful language that GT misinterpreted contextually. GT is a tool, but one of many potential tools and definitely shouldn't be solely relied upon.

Have a look at the Young Interpreters Scheme. We have made good use of this in our school - I have children begging to get involved

As someone whose mum spoke very little English, I think this is a good move. Translators/Interpreters cost money, using someone from within school is a breach of confidentiality. I think it is incumbent on the parents to up skill themselves and learn the language of the land. It'll not just benefit their child but also them in finding work, navigating a different culture. Well done to the school. My mum became too complacent because she knew there's always be someone to help her understand what was happening. It was embarrassing for us kids.

If the school is offering English lessons, a year of translations - and perhaps a tech drop in session or similar to help people get set up with the free translate tools then this seems quite reasonable to me.

I moved to Italy for a year + was thrown in the deep end with absolutely no Italian + no translators for my sons nursery. It was quite intensive for the first couple of months - but by month 4-5 I had enough language to understand the teacher 90% if she spoke intentionally + by 7-8 months It was fine.

I recognise that I have enormous privileges, in that I chose to be there + am relatively confident in myself - but I suspect that if there had been lots of crutches + translation tools available I would have leant on them and not learned what I could.

It’s so hard to find the right balance between ensuring access without disempowering. I think I err on the side of the school here though slightly.

Definitely budget driven! We pay £130 an hour for a translator ..... think of that cost each time you speak to a parent! We also have a high percentage of EAL from 14 different languages. We ask parents to source translators wherever possible and use google translate a lot! Most people seem to know someone who can help.

There is no acceptable reason not to learn the language of a country where you have chosen to live. That goes for people moving here, and people from here going elsewhere. How can you fully participate in a society if you don't. Instead of contributing to society, you become a drain. Translation is expensive. What about voting? Everything. They have been provided with the means to learn, it's on them if they haven't done so.

You've almost exactly described the school I've been a governor at for 18 years OP.

We had to bring this rule in about 6 years ago due to translators charging upwards of £120 per hour.

So far we've had no problems at all as parents always manage to bring an English speaking friend or family member.

However, as a governor you should be challenging the head and the rest of the GB about this, and making sure they explain the reasoning in detail.

Then if you're still unhappy but have a viable alternative, you can put that to them in a meeting.

The school should have a considerable number of translated letters that can be used every year eg "Your child has had a bump", "please check your child for headlice" letters. If other local schools have their back catalogue of standardised letters then they could possibly share translated letters.

I lived in a country where I didn't speak the local language and the school didn't provide English letters. I did not expect them to be provided. Language lessons for foreigners were offered by the local council at a low cost. Otherwise I used online translation guides. I think that your school has gone above and beyond providing this service.

Yes but they're not going to learn it overnight are they? So in the meantime a solution needs to be sought.

Having recently arrived in the country, having had no access to learning, having SEN are just a few 'acceptable reasons'.

Absolutely! Agree 100%>

You want to live in the UK learn English.

It's that simple

Why/how have people lived here 5 years and still not learned English?!

There are free apps. There are lots of council/refugee support services. The school has offered lessons.

People not learning are choosing not to learn and integrate and that is not something the school needs to pay to facilitate.

Not going to learn it overnight?! They've had 5 years or more according to the OP!

Surely within a few months they should be able to speak basic English phrases, especially living here! No excuses!

And what foreign country doesn't teach basic English at schools? These people should know some!

The OP states that some families have been here 5+ years.

And it's worth remembering too, that many people from poor countries haven't even learned to read and write in their own language.

I completely agree with this!

I think the school has done more than any I know. Google translate is brilliant and I'm sure they all have a smart phone. If not, I'm sure the teacher or senco or Head does. It'll be a lot cheaper to think about other ways of making it work rather than assuming a translator so be made available.

I lived in France when my kids were at school. I never used a translator. I took the time and effort to learn the language. If people want to live in another county then that’s what they need to do.

Generally, yes. My hesitation would be one school I worked in, child's father would not allow the mother to go to language classes, and any attempt at her learning online would have been stamped on. Just worth being aware of situations like this.

And providing translators can facilitate that. When the father has no choice but to attend themselves it can push them to allowing their wife to learn.

But that is not our problem.....

The onus is on THEM.

They are in an English speaking country now. They have to try. Not just for their children's schooling, but for day to day living, surely?!
It's essential to learn and they can't possibly integrate without doing so.

I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but it's true.

Yep. This ☝️

As an immigrant myself I agree that anyone who's chosen to live here should learn English. However, the children who will be affected by this change have got already a disadvantage; they will just fall behind further, miss more school days, etc.

It is in everyone’s interests for parents to be engaged and know the language. Hence the school classes.
Don't understand how anyone could disagree with this statement.
In the Scandinavian country I'm from, a translator would not be provided for parents events.