School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

Schools can’t and should not be responsible for ensuring perfect equity and utopia. They are already doing loads and will be making significant accommodations within the school day, the onus should not be on them to also solve every issue outside the school gates.

For those complaining about expat Brits not learning the language - their host countries aren’t translating everything into English to accommodate it, are they?

Children pick up a new language really quickly. If their parents make no effort, that’s their problem.

The money given to schools is to educate the children, not to support parents who are too ignorant to learn their new country’s language.

For those complaining about expat Brits not learning the language - their host countries aren’t translating everything into English to accommodate it, are they?

Many don't. I still giggle at the sign in my local municipal office "We do not provide translation services, please bring someone to translate" in our language only. Like one sign could have been made in few more languages even just via google translate. I assume it was to put the point no translation at all forward or something

It's embarrassing how many Brits don't even try.

We need to be insist that people@ living in this country for extended periods know the language and culture well before they apply for citizenship.

We already do.

OP there are other things the school could do. Often there are local radio stations broadcasting in community languages.

Messages can be passed via church / mosque / temple.

I don't mean personal stuff or information about 1 child but things like, "X school has year 6 parents evening on Y date"

Do you mean older retirees that have moved somewhere sunny? As all the British people I know who have moved abroad (I know a fair few due to my husband's line of work) who have children have generally made an effort to learn the language that their children are being taught in. I mean why wouldn't you want to be able to speak the same language as your kids?

OP you say it doesn't sit right with you, but why not? What other area do you suggest they make a cuts back in instead?

@Smorgs

I live in France and can confirm I've never been offered a translation service for anything at school.

Same here, and with regard to a previous post when it comes to matters medical our local hospital will certainly not offer a translation service either, even when dealing with matters/procedures that need your written/signed permission.

Can someone explain the ‘well English people don’t learn the local language when they move abroad’ argument.

I am sure plenty don’t. But how can you have distain for English that don’t learn the language of their new country. But also think it’s ok for people to move to England, not learn the language to the detriment of their own children.

That feels hypocritical

It would seem that parents have been in the country long enough to learn some of the language.
Sounds like they aren't making much of an effort.
The education authority have made sterling efforts to help parents, it must cost a fortune and can't go on forever.

This thread is particularly illuminating, given the overwhelming majority of British people who only speak English, but who are clearly labouring under the delusion that if they were economic migrants to another country, they would magically develop the time, determination and resources to learn the new language.

And the people who are saying the authorities need to require language competence for residency/citizenship, that is already the case, but some of the school parents the OP is talking about will be illegally in the UK, so not under the official language rules, and probably working within their own community — the school presumably realises this, and, not being the Border Agency, doesn’t want to disadvantage their children educationally. Or consider it’s their job to shop the parents to the authorities.

‘British ex-pats who have moved to Spain who don't speak Spanish I am as critical’

Can I ask why you call these Brits ‘ex-pats’ instead of immigrants?

You not the only one to use this phrase so anyone can answer!

It costs a bomb. I'm an interpreter. The schools have a budget and if they need a translator, they have to use agency, who add on fees. It's probably costing them £300 per translator, per day! Who's going to pay for extra costs? Tax payers? It's not a long term option, Learning English is far better. After all if they want to go to college/University or get a job, they'll need to know English.

I agree with this.

getting local volunteers in to help wherever possible can also connect those who clearly need help with others in similar circumstances or need.

it can help build the bridges needed to learn a language and instil the community aspect needed to get parents to understand that kids going to school is important.

perhaps some of the issues especially around mums is that their religion or cultural background means they need female only English lessons and that sometimes the men can prevent them from learning English.

Way back in the late 90s I worked in a large-ish southern English town with a girl whose parents were born in Hong Kong. They had come to the UK in the early 70s and their kids were all British born and educated, my colleague at the time was about 20 or 21. Her parents spoke only the very minimum of English - hello, how are you, no, yes - that sort of thing. She regularly had to make phone calls at work to the bank, council tax people, hospital etc on behalf of her parents as they couldn't.

The parents ran a restaurant and dealt with Chinese speaking suppliers, their accountant spoke Chinese, they used Chinese doctors/acupunturists etc, their friends and social circle was all Chinese. They saw no need to learn English to any high standard at all, certainly no need for reading and writing in English. They relied on their adult children for everything, this was way before translation apps and google translate.

There are lots of communities like this, and lots of cultures where especially women/mums are not encouraged to learn English. But this is a choice and as I keep telling my kids, choices have consequences.

Quite understand why schools cannot afford to lay on expensive translation services for everyone.

My parents were both economic migrants. I wasn’t born in England but grew up here.

If you are becoming an economic migrant it’s ridiculous to not learn the language.

It’s also not putting your children’s best interests first. Since parents understanding what’s happening in school is in their best interests.

Its such an ill thought out and lazy argument, to assume anyone who has a certain opinion must all be the same, have the same experiences and same backgrounds

If you live in the UK, they are emigrants from your point of view, not immigrants.

'This thread is particularly illuminating, given the overwhelming majority of British people who only speak English, but who are clearly labouring under the delusion that if they were economic migrants to another country, they would magically develop the time, determination and resources to learn the new language.'

It's both a blessing and a curse that English is so widely spoken I'd say. I still think that it's important to make an effort to learn the language, or at least one of the spoken languages, if you move to or visit a new country though. Even attempting to learn the basics will also mean others are more keen to adapt a little and help you too. It seems in OPs case that there are classes provided.

How on earth do these parents who don’t speak English work…. Probably they don’t and get benefits. Sorry but after five years, this is appalling.

I think learning the language is crucial for integration. But learning a language is hard for some. Really hard. Kids struggle with MFL at school and take-up is dropping.

Whilst I can see that this is an obvious place to make cuts, it’s not as simple as ‘learn the language’. Some people really struggle, or get embarrassed and it’s not that easy to learn English.

Having said that, many people do. In my NHS work I come across them. Only this week I met a lovely young woman who had come here from Sudan aged 14 barely speaking English. She was bullied and suffered racism. Yet worked hard and got the grades for medical school. Another woman devoted her life to caring for her son who was the result of a rape by a soldier; she was attending classes with him so they could both learn English. I would say I see far many more examples of people who have learned English, despite adversity than those who haven’t.

I know many other countries don’t help people learn the language. Isn’t it great though that we are better than that and try and help others assimilate? It’s something to be proud of. Why should we aim to be as unhelpful as other countries?

Exactly. I thought all these immigrants were keen to work here ??

Yes well done. But you know, that that is not the point I am making or asking about.

@MaudGonneOutForAFag my parents to were both economic migrants. Learning the language us a key part of being economically successful in a new country so they did. In fact they both started learning English before they arrived specifically so they would be able to survive and find work.

I don't think it comes as a great shock to most migrants that they have come to a country where English is spoken - and many asylum seekers come here for precisely that reason.

I lived in Belgium for a while. There were a lot of British families whose kids went to the British School from age 3 to 18. They did ballet, Brownies, Cubs, Scouts, Guides in English. Zero integration and zero effort to learn the languages. It as a real bubble set up, and the kids would go to U.K. - a country they had never lived in - for university. It seemed very odd to me.

The town hall and local schools refused to speak anything but Dutch. But this was as much animosity towards the Francophone community as the expats.

This thread is providing the perfect outlet for some closet bigots to vent in an ‘acceptable’ manner! It’s a racist’s wet dream! I don’t mean all posters of course, but reading between the lines in a few of the posts, it’s obvious with some!

I think this is a reasonable move from the school. To be in a different country and have your kids in school for so many years and you haven't made the effort to learn the language even a tiny bit is the unreasonable part. I get that languages are difficult to learn but come on, 5+ years? It doesn't take that long to learn a few words and phrases!